World credit crunch and world recession
Discussion
Fairly simple.
They should recognise the issue, and budget substantial public spending reductions to balance the books. All decisions they make should be based on the national interest and not to try and achieve re-election, whether those decisions would be popular or not.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
They should recognise the issue, and budget substantial public spending reductions to balance the books. All decisions they make should be based on the national interest and not to try and achieve re-election, whether those decisions would be popular or not.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
We've had loads of recessions in the past. Many have tried to deal with them. All have failed. Doing nothing is the best option. What Labour are doing is attempting to put up a wooden fence to stop a Tsunami. For someone who claims to be good with all things economic, Winky doesn't appear to have done much research into recessions of the last century. There is plenty of literature available, of course. Even I have read a couple of books on the subject. And simply, you can't borrow your way out of a debt crisis. What sort of idiot does that?
However, perhaps they should, as Loafer suggested, have reduced public spending. I'd like to see the MPs feel the pain of the recession, too.
However, perhaps they should, as Loafer suggested, have reduced public spending. I'd like to see the MPs feel the pain of the recession, too.
Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 24th April 00:10
Of course, if you think Winky and Badger are correct and that the recession will end in December 2009, then www.igindex.co.uk will make you a millionaire. Just borrow £50k and open a long position on the FTSE to end January 2011...
Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 24th April 00:17
Rev Master said:
what should the Labour party have done if you think they're handling it bad?
1. Not sell off half the gold reserve at a 20 year low.2. Not Ramp up payments to people who dont contribute to the ecconomy. social service should provide the minimum people need to live not a good life.
3. Introduce regulation to the financial services controling exposure and risk to managable levels.
4. Not introduce expensive and hopeless major projects such as NPFit, ID cards, video surveilance, road pricing etc
5. Spend what you earn. Prudence? f
kING PRUDENCE MR WINKY? In 'boom' times you should pocket the excess for the (inevitable mr winky mc fknuts) bust so you dont have a national debt of £1 trillion.6. If your bailing out industrys that have earned billions previously and pay stupid prehaps you need to stop them from squandering their own (and customer) funds before you hand over all the countries.
7. Prehaps Fighting a war or two over incredibly suspect reasons in far away places that , realy, just want to gut you with a rust spoon isn the best way to spend multi £billions.
8. Dont be cheeky barstwards with your pay, pension and especialy expenses when the countries on its knees taking it from behind...
In sumations. Spend (the taxpayers!) money carefuly, and not more than you have, and make sure those industries your ulitmatly responsible for are regulated properly.
ShadownINja said:
Of course, if you think Winky and Badger are correct and that the recession will end in December 2009, then www.igindex.co.uk will make you a millionaire. Just borrow £50k and open a long position on the FTSE to end January 2011...
Not convinced of the correlation!Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 24th April 00:17
What I would want Labour to do is;
Leave Parliament!
They've been a disgrace! I've never seen such a dishonest, corrupt, idiotic government run this country!
All the lies they were telling us. Its been Brown's frivolous nature with the country's money that left us in such a weak position as a nation. They have to go. I've lost all confidence in their ability to effectively run our economy.
Who's to say that in the next 14 months or so to the next election we won't find ourselves in a even worse position thanks to the actions that they have taken.
Labour needs to go. Its time for a change.
Leave Parliament!
They've been a disgrace! I've never seen such a dishonest, corrupt, idiotic government run this country!
All the lies they were telling us. Its been Brown's frivolous nature with the country's money that left us in such a weak position as a nation. They have to go. I've lost all confidence in their ability to effectively run our economy.
Who's to say that in the next 14 months or so to the next election we won't find ourselves in a even worse position thanks to the actions that they have taken.
Labour needs to go. Its time for a change.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Who's to say that in the next 14 months or so to the next election we won't find ourselves in a even worse position thanks to the actions that they have taken.
We need an election now - certainly no later than October. Another 14 months of those turds will be too much.Luckily, public sentiment seems to be turning - let's hope it accelerates and the Labour back benchers do the honourable thing for their country (well, England, IYSWIM)
As per RobDickinson's response - it's not what they can do now, it's what they did in the past.
Instead of reducing the debt during the boom years, they increased it. Now that the recession is happening, we are laid bare with precious little defences. If they'd have reduced the debt, or even built up a surplus, we'd have been able to fight the recession.
Instead, the afore-mentioned tidal wave is going to sweep us away.
History shows the Tories would have been likely to reduce debt/squirrel money away. They may all be similar types of politicians, but that's one massive difference between the parties.
Instead of reducing the debt during the boom years, they increased it. Now that the recession is happening, we are laid bare with precious little defences. If they'd have reduced the debt, or even built up a surplus, we'd have been able to fight the recession.
Instead, the afore-mentioned tidal wave is going to sweep us away.
History shows the Tories would have been likely to reduce debt/squirrel money away. They may all be similar types of politicians, but that's one massive difference between the parties.
RobDickinson said:
Rev Master said:
what should the Labour party have done if you think they're handling it bad?
1. Not sell off half the gold reserve at a 20 year low.2. Not Ramp up payments to people who dont contribute to the ecconomy. social service should provide the minimum people need to live not a good life.
3. Introduce regulation to the financial services controling exposure and risk to managable levels.
4. Not introduce expensive and hopeless major projects such as NPFit, ID cards, video surveilance, road pricing etc
5. Spend what you earn. Prudence? f
kING PRUDENCE MR WINKY? In 'boom' times you should pocket the excess for the (inevitable mr winky mc fknuts) bust so you dont have a national debt of £1 trillion.6. If your bailing out industrys that have earned billions previously and pay stupid prehaps you need to stop them from squandering their own (and customer) funds before you hand over all the countries.
7. Prehaps Fighting a war or two over incredibly suspect reasons in far away places that , realy, just want to gut you with a rust spoon isn the best way to spend multi £billions.
8. Dont be cheeky barstwards with your pay, pension and especialy expenses when the countries on its knees taking it from behind...
In sumations. Spend (the taxpayers!) money carefuly, and not more than you have, and make sure those industries your ulitmatly responsible for are regulated properly.
Are you reading this Rev Master or just keeping your head firmly planted in the sand?
Bing o said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Who's to say that in the next 14 months or so to the next election we won't find ourselves in a even worse position thanks to the actions that they have taken.
We need an election now - certainly no later than October. Another 14 months of those turds will be too much.Luckily, public sentiment seems to be turning - let's hope it accelerates and the Labour back benchers do the honourable thing for their country (well, England, IYSWIM)
Was a good sign when Cameron state in the house that the country could not survive another 14 months untill the next election comes round. Maybe hinting they might try and force the issue a bit sooner. Who knows
Tony*T3 said:
What made me want to kick Browns face in wasnt his actions over the recession - it was his stupid gurning face laughing and smiling at Camerons Budget responce. Made me want to kill the tt.
Hardly acceptable behaviour from our leader, Littlejohn sums it up perfectly....t.Littlejohn said:
Good to see Call Me Dave getting genuinely angry during his skilful response to the Budget and refusing to fall into Brown's cynical 50p income tax trap.
He certainly looked more Prime Ministerial than the Prime Minister, who sat there grinning, gurning and talking to himself and his colleagues throughout Cameron's reply - like a schoolboy with special needs during a particularly boring lesson.
Brown's pig-ignorant, puerile behaviour was an insult not just to the House of Commons, but to all of us who are having to pay through the nose for the consequences of his policy failures.
David Cameron lets rip in response to Darling's budget
What, precisely, is it that he finds so funny about an economic meltdown which has bankrupted Britain and will cost millions of his fellow citizens their homes, jobs and businesses, through no fault of their own?
It proved yet again that far from his self-image as great statesman, a global colossus, he is a small-minded, self-obsessed, petty, partisan political popinjay - a disgrace to the high office he considers his by right.
Far from trying to govern for the whole nation at a time of economic crisis, he seeks to divide us for his own electoral advantage. His 'clobber the rich' strategy is irrelevant to our real problems, as well as being economically illiterate.
Yesterday, he was boasting to an audience of young people about how his Budget will help the 'creative' industries - such as fashion, music and film - when it will actually have the opposite effect.
How many talented fashion designers, musicians and film stars and directors are going to stay in Brown's septic isle if it means they have to hand over half of their earnings to the Government?
The same goes for all those entrepreneurs and risk-takers who build businesses, big and small, creating jobs and generating wealth. Don't be under any illusions. This mean-spirited, throwback Budget was the work of Gordon Brown, not his glove puppet.
The only reason Brown grinned inanely throughout Darling's soul-destroying 50-minute dirge was so that you couldn't see his lips move.
He certainly looked more Prime Ministerial than the Prime Minister, who sat there grinning, gurning and talking to himself and his colleagues throughout Cameron's reply - like a schoolboy with special needs during a particularly boring lesson.
Brown's pig-ignorant, puerile behaviour was an insult not just to the House of Commons, but to all of us who are having to pay through the nose for the consequences of his policy failures.
David Cameron lets rip in response to Darling's budget
What, precisely, is it that he finds so funny about an economic meltdown which has bankrupted Britain and will cost millions of his fellow citizens their homes, jobs and businesses, through no fault of their own?
It proved yet again that far from his self-image as great statesman, a global colossus, he is a small-minded, self-obsessed, petty, partisan political popinjay - a disgrace to the high office he considers his by right.
Far from trying to govern for the whole nation at a time of economic crisis, he seeks to divide us for his own electoral advantage. His 'clobber the rich' strategy is irrelevant to our real problems, as well as being economically illiterate.
Yesterday, he was boasting to an audience of young people about how his Budget will help the 'creative' industries - such as fashion, music and film - when it will actually have the opposite effect.
How many talented fashion designers, musicians and film stars and directors are going to stay in Brown's septic isle if it means they have to hand over half of their earnings to the Government?
The same goes for all those entrepreneurs and risk-takers who build businesses, big and small, creating jobs and generating wealth. Don't be under any illusions. This mean-spirited, throwback Budget was the work of Gordon Brown, not his glove puppet.
The only reason Brown grinned inanely throughout Darling's soul-destroying 50-minute dirge was so that you couldn't see his lips move.
[AJ] said:
RobDickinson said:
Rev Master said:
what should the Labour party have done if you think they're handling it bad?
1. Not sell off half the gold reserve at a 20 year low.2. Not Ramp up payments to people who dont contribute to the ecconomy. social service should provide the minimum people need to live not a good life.
3. Introduce regulation to the financial services controling exposure and risk to managable levels.
4. Not introduce expensive and hopeless major projects such as NPFit, ID cards, video surveilance, road pricing etc
5. Spend what you earn. Prudence? f
kING PRUDENCE MR WINKY? In 'boom' times you should pocket the excess for the (inevitable mr winky mc fknuts) bust so you dont have a national debt of £1 trillion.6. If your bailing out industrys that have earned billions previously and pay stupid prehaps you need to stop them from squandering their own (and customer) funds before you hand over all the countries.
7. Prehaps Fighting a war or two over incredibly suspect reasons in far away places that , realy, just want to gut you with a rust spoon isn the best way to spend multi £billions.
8. Dont be cheeky barstwards with your pay, pension and especialy expenses when the countries on its knees taking it from behind...
In sumations. Spend (the taxpayers!) money carefuly, and not more than you have, and make sure those industries your ulitmatly responsible for are regulated properly.
Are you reading this Rev Master or just keeping your head firmly planted in the sand?
NoelWatson said:
ShadownINja said:
Of course, if you think Winky and Badger are correct and that the recession will end in December 2009, then www.igindex.co.uk will make you a millionaire. Just borrow £50k and open a long position on the FTSE to end January 2011...
Not convinced of the correlation!Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 24th April 00:17
ShadownINja said:
NoelWatson said:
ShadownINja said:
Of course, if you think Winky and Badger are correct and that the recession will end in December 2009, then www.igindex.co.uk will make you a millionaire. Just borrow £50k and open a long position on the FTSE to end January 2011...
Not convinced of the correlation!Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 24th April 00:17
Zod said:
to which should be added: not increase the public sector payroll by between 600,000 and 1m, most of whom have the right to vastly expensive, unfunded pensions.
And that is going to be the real economic time bomb, likely to hit us as we limp out of this mess in the 2020's.What is the exposure to paying off all these non-jobs? Noel must have a graph somewhere?
The two questions I would hammer into Darling-Brown would be:
1. During the boom years why didn't you save money in case of bust years?
2. You claim you're going to save £15bn through "efficiency improvements" - what on earth has been going on that there is so much wastage now to be saved?
Where to go from here? We won't come out of recession until the general public start spending again. How to encourage this? I'd start with businesses - you need to encourage businesses to grow, hence provide more jobs, etc, so reduce red tape for businesses, reduce business taxes. Then, if people are to spend again, they need more money in their pockets to spend, so reduce the hugely complicated tax burden, make it simple, make it effective. If people think the taxation is fair, they won't try to avoid it so much.
How do you pay for this reduction in taxation? By using those efficiency savings touted above, but more importantly by changing the benefits culture to one of a true safety net, not a lifestyle choice. It should be self-evident that any job is better than no job. People need to participate in society not just feed off it. Of course, it may be that you need to do the first part before you can do the second part, so generate the business growth and job opportunities before you can reduce benefits - that's the sort of investment that may be sustainable.
Of course, I could well be talking rubbish
1. During the boom years why didn't you save money in case of bust years?
2. You claim you're going to save £15bn through "efficiency improvements" - what on earth has been going on that there is so much wastage now to be saved?
Where to go from here? We won't come out of recession until the general public start spending again. How to encourage this? I'd start with businesses - you need to encourage businesses to grow, hence provide more jobs, etc, so reduce red tape for businesses, reduce business taxes. Then, if people are to spend again, they need more money in their pockets to spend, so reduce the hugely complicated tax burden, make it simple, make it effective. If people think the taxation is fair, they won't try to avoid it so much.
How do you pay for this reduction in taxation? By using those efficiency savings touted above, but more importantly by changing the benefits culture to one of a true safety net, not a lifestyle choice. It should be self-evident that any job is better than no job. People need to participate in society not just feed off it. Of course, it may be that you need to do the first part before you can do the second part, so generate the business growth and job opportunities before you can reduce benefits - that's the sort of investment that may be sustainable.
Of course, I could well be talking rubbish
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