The 2009 budget
Discussion
I'm beginning to think this is going to be the worst budget in years.
Fuel tax up, Tax up on fags n booze up and failing miserably to help promote movement in the housing market by doing little or nothing to stamp duty and it's unfair method of calculating the rates.
Cutting spending that affects Joe Public yet wasting money on DVLA computers et al.
Taxing us under the guise of 'green taxes' whilst other countries pollute far more than we have ever done.
Awarding MP's with increases in pay and allowances that we pay for whilst asking their electorate to 'tighten their belts'
More and more I get the feeling I had towards the end of the last Tory government in '97 about this lot, once again we will be heading towards more of the same if they get back in.
Fuel tax up, Tax up on fags n booze up and failing miserably to help promote movement in the housing market by doing little or nothing to stamp duty and it's unfair method of calculating the rates.
Cutting spending that affects Joe Public yet wasting money on DVLA computers et al.
Taxing us under the guise of 'green taxes' whilst other countries pollute far more than we have ever done.
Awarding MP's with increases in pay and allowances that we pay for whilst asking their electorate to 'tighten their belts'
More and more I get the feeling I had towards the end of the last Tory government in '97 about this lot, once again we will be heading towards more of the same if they get back in.
Dave_ST220 said:
Steve748 said:
More and more I get the feeling I had towards the end of the last Tory government in '97 about this lot, once again we will be heading towards more of the same if they get back in.
So the answer is?This Government don't know what its doing anymore. They are a bunch of thugs and are giving our country a bad name!
Change is needed. Whether it Tory or Lib Dem or whoever.....we need an election, and we need one now, before it gets any worse!
Just been watching this on the news;
It's been such poor management of the economy by Labour that has left us borrowing, not the £30 billion that the Chancellor told us last time, but closer to £175 billion!! How can you be so far out unless you just don't have a clue what you are doing (or are purposely misleading the public)!!
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Monday 20th April 18:47
I will be shocked if the gov't do not raise taxes across the board.
I also expect a blizzard of attacks on both the very top and bottom of society.
Neither are relevant to elections as the bottom doesn't vote and the top is very small. This will be welcomed by "middle england", to whom this budget must cater if Labour have any prospect of GE survival.
If they retreat to their squeeze the middle ideology, we can be sure that whatever fight is left in NL will soon be gone.
Frankly, the last thing we need is an election so close to such a financial disaster; politics will trump economics for the benefit of nobody this year.
I also expect a blizzard of attacks on both the very top and bottom of society.
Neither are relevant to elections as the bottom doesn't vote and the top is very small. This will be welcomed by "middle england", to whom this budget must cater if Labour have any prospect of GE survival.
If they retreat to their squeeze the middle ideology, we can be sure that whatever fight is left in NL will soon be gone.
Frankly, the last thing we need is an election so close to such a financial disaster; politics will trump economics for the benefit of nobody this year.
The tragic thing is that new Labour made 'high spending' popular. As a result a few years ago both parties were trying to outbid each other to see who could promise to spend the most (as opposed to the usual Conservative philosophy). And hey, it all went wrong because they forgot to wonder where all the cash was going to come from. Good old Labour and their money trees 
Martial Arts Man said:
I will be shocked if the gov't do not raise taxes across the board.
I also expect a blizzard of attacks on both the very top and bottom of society.
Neither are relevant to elections as the bottom doesn't vote and the top is very small. This will be welcomed by "middle england", to whom this budget must cater if Labour have any prospect of GE survival.
If they retreat to their squeeze the middle ideology, we can be sure that whatever fight is left in NL will soon be gone.
Frankly, the last thing we need is an election so close to such a financial disaster; politics will trump economics for the benefit of nobody this year.
Certainly the forecasts confirm Old Labour envy politics being dredged up but with an attempt at Nu Labian stealth - not that it works any more - e.g. there are articles on various allowances for top rate taxpayers being hit rather than, or as well as, anything front line. Then there's NI which must have had several pre-announed rises that come in later, about now (when they think we'll have forgotten) plus more grubby money grabbing by these incompetent wasters whose time is well and truly up.I also expect a blizzard of attacks on both the very top and bottom of society.
Neither are relevant to elections as the bottom doesn't vote and the top is very small. This will be welcomed by "middle england", to whom this budget must cater if Labour have any prospect of GE survival.
If they retreat to their squeeze the middle ideology, we can be sure that whatever fight is left in NL will soon be gone.
Frankly, the last thing we need is an election so close to such a financial disaster; politics will trump economics for the benefit of nobody this year.
Martial Arts Man said:
I also expect a blizzard of attacks on both the very top and bottom of society.
Well they did announce the 45% tax rate over £150k.Darling said this would bring in £1.6B
The IFS said no chance, more like £450m at a push.
Darling then goes onto say that they don't have the data he has.
However the IFS are not as dumb as Darling, as anyone will realise people will choose to earn less. Or avoid tax that little bit better.
I think Stephanie Flanders on the BBC has about the right take on it:
The conflict I flagged up earlier between rhetoric and reality has been borne out. The chancellor talked big about raising taxes, but if you look at the tightening in the budget he is planning from 2011, more of the work is being done by slower spending growth than by higher taxes.
Even within the higher taxes, it's striking that he's planning to raise almost as much from higher fuel duty than through the higher taxes on the rich. The end of personal allowances for people earning more than £100k will raise a mere £180m by 2011-2.
Compare that to the extra £1.75bn the government will be netting in extra fuel duty. Similarly, restricting the tax relief on pension contributions to 20% for people on more than £150k will deliver a measly £200m a year.
The 50% top rate for people on more than £150k will raise somewhat more - about £1.8bn in 2011-12, but as I said earlier, the IFS and others have been sceptical about the capacity to raise even that.
And of course there's a reason for the smoke and mirrors - which is that you can't raise the kind of money this government needs to raise by soaking the rich. There aren't enough of them, and those that do exist tend to be very good at keeping the government's hands off their cash. Taxing the rich makes for good politics but less effective economics.
The conflict I flagged up earlier between rhetoric and reality has been borne out. The chancellor talked big about raising taxes, but if you look at the tightening in the budget he is planning from 2011, more of the work is being done by slower spending growth than by higher taxes.
Even within the higher taxes, it's striking that he's planning to raise almost as much from higher fuel duty than through the higher taxes on the rich. The end of personal allowances for people earning more than £100k will raise a mere £180m by 2011-2.
Compare that to the extra £1.75bn the government will be netting in extra fuel duty. Similarly, restricting the tax relief on pension contributions to 20% for people on more than £150k will deliver a measly £200m a year.
The 50% top rate for people on more than £150k will raise somewhat more - about £1.8bn in 2011-12, but as I said earlier, the IFS and others have been sceptical about the capacity to raise even that.
And of course there's a reason for the smoke and mirrors - which is that you can't raise the kind of money this government needs to raise by soaking the rich. There aren't enough of them, and those that do exist tend to be very good at keeping the government's hands off their cash. Taxing the rich makes for good politics but less effective economics.
Edited by RacingTeatray on Wednesday 22 April 15:32
From Redwoods blog;
Just as I feared, they have learnt nothing.
It was budget of posturing . A tax on the “rich “to test the Tories - which won’t raise much revenue and may even reduce the revenue. More public spending for Labour areas under a cloak of “doing what it takes”. And enough red ink to launch an aircraft carrier, if they ever get round to building one.
In my post budget speech in the Commons I concentrated on the three forces that have wrecked the public accounts - Bank nationalisation, a violent cycle, and grotesque excess in public spending.
The trick was to conceal some of the borrowing, and then to claim the economy will be off to the races in 2011, apparently bringing the deficit down.
Dream on. We will paying these bills for years. They plan to borrow more in two years than all previous governments combined have borrowed in 1000 years. That is going to be painful to repay.
Just as I feared, they have learnt nothing.
It was budget of posturing . A tax on the “rich “to test the Tories - which won’t raise much revenue and may even reduce the revenue. More public spending for Labour areas under a cloak of “doing what it takes”. And enough red ink to launch an aircraft carrier, if they ever get round to building one.
In my post budget speech in the Commons I concentrated on the three forces that have wrecked the public accounts - Bank nationalisation, a violent cycle, and grotesque excess in public spending.
The trick was to conceal some of the borrowing, and then to claim the economy will be off to the races in 2011, apparently bringing the deficit down.
Dream on. We will paying these bills for years. They plan to borrow more in two years than all previous governments combined have borrowed in 1000 years. That is going to be painful to repay.
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