Lindsay Clancy - collective delirium?
Discussion
Don't think I've seen a thread about this.
I debated all day yesterday about starting this, but I'm personally very disturbed by the reaction to the trial and the murders in the US but also elsewhere.
I haven't followed the trial in detail, but it seems there's a tribe around her that will simply not countenance any condemnation of her at all. Supporters, co-ordinated in pink t-shirts, gathering outside the court and cheering her on the way in.
My thoughts are with the victims - her three young children who, even she admits, died at her hands.
I've been amazed by this, am I just being naïve and this is just the way of the world now?
I debated all day yesterday about starting this, but I'm personally very disturbed by the reaction to the trial and the murders in the US but also elsewhere.
I haven't followed the trial in detail, but it seems there's a tribe around her that will simply not countenance any condemnation of her at all. Supporters, co-ordinated in pink t-shirts, gathering outside the court and cheering her on the way in.
My thoughts are with the victims - her three young children who, even she admits, died at her hands.
I've been amazed by this, am I just being naïve and this is just the way of the world now?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
14 hours into deliberation, some jurors don't think it's clear cut.
A hung jury looms like a big loomy thing.
14 hours into deliberation, some jurors don't think it's clear cut.
A hung jury looms like a big loomy thing.
grumbledoak said:
It's an absolutely bizarre reaction.
And seemingly uniquely female.
Find an example of a man who killed his children due to mental health issues. Look how much leniency they got from the legal system or support they got from other men. It will be none.
Yes, post natal tends to be uniquely female.And seemingly uniquely female.
Find an example of a man who killed his children due to mental health issues. Look how much leniency they got from the legal system or support they got from other men. It will be none.
grumbledoak said:
It's an absolutely bizarre reaction.
And seemingly uniquely female.
Find an example of a man who killed his children due to mental health issues. Look how much leniency they got from the legal system or support they got from other men. It will be none.
Indeed. Family annihilators almost always have mental heath issues, but this is the first time I've ever heard of one attracting sympathy.And seemingly uniquely female.
Find an example of a man who killed his children due to mental health issues. Look how much leniency they got from the legal system or support they got from other men. It will be none.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Indeed. Family annihilators almost always have mental heath issues, but this is the first time I've ever heard of one attracting sympathy.
Worked for Lizzie Borden, the public and, more importantly, the all-male jury couldn't possibly countenance the idea of a young gentlewoman using an axe to bash in the heads of her Pa and step-Mum, yet all the evidence pointed to just that.Thr law expects people to behave rationally.
But sometimes, people's brains don't allow them to behave rationally.
Are "you" guilty if a you aren't in control of your actions?
I'm not talking imperious curse here, so i guess the issue is where do genuine mental health issues stop and bogus defence bs start?
Post natal depression is real, and is a biological female thing as far as I know.
But sometimes, people's brains don't allow them to behave rationally.
Are "you" guilty if a you aren't in control of your actions?
I'm not talking imperious curse here, so i guess the issue is where do genuine mental health issues stop and bogus defence bs start?
Post natal depression is real, and is a biological female thing as far as I know.
I've not read the details of this specific case, but what I can say is:
My wife had Peuperal (post natal) Psycosis.
17 years later it still f
king hurts to think about it, or read about other cases.
It's not just depression, it's full blown psychosis, the two should not be confused.
Having experienced your wife not recognising you, being convinced a grim reaper type character is sitting on the sofa next to you, and communicating with aliens tends to change your view on cases such as this.
It is eminently treatable, and recoverable from, but every year some women do kill themselves and their babies.
Perhaps there is no-one at home to 'force' them to take their medication, perhaps the nearest mother and baby unit is several hundred miles away so you are relying on thrice-daily crisis team visits and struggling through the time in between; or perhaps this case in particular is the result of the US not having a healthcare service unless you can pay.
(BTW My wife is fully recovered, took about 2 years.)
My wife had Peuperal (post natal) Psycosis.
17 years later it still f
king hurts to think about it, or read about other cases.It's not just depression, it's full blown psychosis, the two should not be confused.
Having experienced your wife not recognising you, being convinced a grim reaper type character is sitting on the sofa next to you, and communicating with aliens tends to change your view on cases such as this.
It is eminently treatable, and recoverable from, but every year some women do kill themselves and their babies.
Perhaps there is no-one at home to 'force' them to take their medication, perhaps the nearest mother and baby unit is several hundred miles away so you are relying on thrice-daily crisis team visits and struggling through the time in between; or perhaps this case in particular is the result of the US not having a healthcare service unless you can pay.
(BTW My wife is fully recovered, took about 2 years.)
Ian Geary said:
Thr law expects people to behave rationally.
But sometimes, people's brains don't allow them to behave rationally.
Are "you" guilty if a you aren't in control of your actions?
I'm not talking imperious curse here, so i guess the issue is where do genuine mental health issues stop and bogus defence bs start?
Post natal depression is real, and is a biological female thing as far as I know.
Neither depression nor mental illness are uniquely biological female things.But sometimes, people's brains don't allow them to behave rationally.
Are "you" guilty if a you aren't in control of your actions?
I'm not talking imperious curse here, so i guess the issue is where do genuine mental health issues stop and bogus defence bs start?
Post natal depression is real, and is a biological female thing as far as I know.
Not that she was diagnosed as either of these by the seven(?) doctors she saw.
She sent her work from home husband off on an errand to give herself time to do this.
Her first question on waking up in the hospital was apparently "Do I have an attorney?".
Took a while to find this...
At least one of you has already read it...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
At least one of you has already read it...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
grumbledoak said:
Neither depression nor mental illness are uniquely biological female things.
Not that she was diagnosed as either of these by the seven(?) doctors she saw.
She sent her work from home husband off on an errand to give herself time to do this.
Her first question on waking up in the hospital was apparently "Do I have an attorney?".
Yeah, I had a close friend who had post partum psychosis. Heart breaking but there seems zero evidence LC suffered from it and pretty good evidence that she didn't.Not that she was diagnosed as either of these by the seven(?) doctors she saw.
She sent her work from home husband off on an errand to give herself time to do this.
Her first question on waking up in the hospital was apparently "Do I have an attorney?".
I still have a lot of sympathy for LC and TBH all these nutters who kill. They didn't ask to be mentally ill. But the reality is if you can understand your actions are wrong you need to be subject to the law no matter how mentally ****ed up you are. You can't have a rule that says "People with severe personality disorders can kill at will.". You just have to hope that if a long prison sentence is the consequence a small percentage of them will be detered and therefore we're all safer.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Tuesday 1st September 09:26
I think it comes down to the possibility that people don't want to believe a mother is capable of doing such a thing without being stark staring mad/not quite herself. (or it's a vanishingly small number at least)
We all accept that men can be murderous and cruel without the need to be insane, women not so much, awful tragedy regardless.
grumbledoak said:
It's an absolutely bizarre reaction.
And seemingly uniquely female.
Find an example of a man who killed his children due to mental health issues. Look how much leniency they got from the legal system or support they got from other men. It will be none.
The only case locally that comes to mind the me the mental health defence was tossed out and he is serving life for killing his two kids. A friend of mine was first on the scene. Not nice.And seemingly uniquely female.
Find an example of a man who killed his children due to mental health issues. Look how much leniency they got from the legal system or support they got from other men. It will be none.
RIP Stevie
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/13275620.fathe...
chris1roll said:
I've not read the details of this specific case, but what I can say is:
My wife had Peuperal (post natal) Psycosis.
17 years later it still fking hurts to think about it, or read about other cases.
It's not just depression, it's full blown psychosis, the two should not be confused.
Having experienced your wife not recognising you, being convinced a grim reaper type character is sitting on the sofa next to you, and communicating with aliens tends to change your view on cases such as this.
It is eminently treatable, and recoverable from, but every year some women do kill themselves and their babies.
Perhaps there is no-one at home to 'force' them to take their medication, perhaps the nearest mother and baby unit is several hundred miles away so you are relying on thrice-daily crisis team visits and struggling through the time in between; or perhaps this case in particular is the result of the US not having a healthcare service unless you can pay.
(BTW My wife is fully recovered, took about 2 years.)
Sorry to read that and glad to hear your wife is fully recovered now, can't have been an easy time! My wife had Peuperal (post natal) Psycosis.
17 years later it still f
king hurts to think about it, or read about other cases.It's not just depression, it's full blown psychosis, the two should not be confused.
Having experienced your wife not recognising you, being convinced a grim reaper type character is sitting on the sofa next to you, and communicating with aliens tends to change your view on cases such as this.
It is eminently treatable, and recoverable from, but every year some women do kill themselves and their babies.
Perhaps there is no-one at home to 'force' them to take their medication, perhaps the nearest mother and baby unit is several hundred miles away so you are relying on thrice-daily crisis team visits and struggling through the time in between; or perhaps this case in particular is the result of the US not having a healthcare service unless you can pay.
(BTW My wife is fully recovered, took about 2 years.)
It's also interesting as I've got three kids and neither of their mums suffered mentally once they were born. I'm aware of post natal depression but not the possibility of psychosis. I know that where I used to live, there was a local woman who was suffering mentally and took herself and two children to the local train station and jumped in front of a train. It was understood to be post natal depression but sounds relatable to this news story.
The reality is, this woman is guilty of killing her children and in my opinion should take some responsibility for that. That said, hopefully this opens up understanding of just how severe these situations can be for people. If it is the psychosis that is being used as a defence, then I do feel sorry for her but at the same time, I wouldn't be cheering her on either.
Wills2 said:
I think it comes down to the possibility that people don't want to believe a mother is capable of doing such a thing without being stark staring mad/not quite herself. (or it's a vanishingly small number at least)
We all accept that men can be murderous and cruel without the need to be insane, women not so much, awful tragedy regardless.
Yes, that. We all accept that men can be murderous and cruel without the need to be insane, women not so much, awful tragedy regardless.
People, particularly other women, seem incredibly keen to assign her a medical condition she wasn't diagnosed, and to use it as an excuse for a horrible triple murder.
I don't ever remember other men being keen to excuse a father doing such things, even though they are quite possibly just as culpable or mentally ill at the time.
A strange phenomenon. I wonder if it is even organic.
Alex_225 said:
chris1roll said:
I've not read the details of this specific case, but what I can say is:
My wife had Peuperal (post natal) Psycosis.
17 years later it still fking hurts to think about it, or read about other cases.
It's not just depression, it's full blown psychosis, the two should not be confused.
Having experienced your wife not recognising you, being convinced a grim reaper type character is sitting on the sofa next to you, and communicating with aliens tends to change your view on cases such as this.
It is eminently treatable, and recoverable from, but every year some women do kill themselves and their babies.
Perhaps there is no-one at home to 'force' them to take their medication, perhaps the nearest mother and baby unit is several hundred miles away so you are relying on thrice-daily crisis team visits and struggling through the time in between; or perhaps this case in particular is the result of the US not having a healthcare service unless you can pay.
(BTW My wife is fully recovered, took about 2 years.)
Sorry to read that and glad to hear your wife is fully recovered now, can't have been an easy time! My wife had Peuperal (post natal) Psycosis.
17 years later it still f
king hurts to think about it, or read about other cases.It's not just depression, it's full blown psychosis, the two should not be confused.
Having experienced your wife not recognising you, being convinced a grim reaper type character is sitting on the sofa next to you, and communicating with aliens tends to change your view on cases such as this.
It is eminently treatable, and recoverable from, but every year some women do kill themselves and their babies.
Perhaps there is no-one at home to 'force' them to take their medication, perhaps the nearest mother and baby unit is several hundred miles away so you are relying on thrice-daily crisis team visits and struggling through the time in between; or perhaps this case in particular is the result of the US not having a healthcare service unless you can pay.
(BTW My wife is fully recovered, took about 2 years.)
It's also interesting as I've got three kids and neither of their mums suffered mentally once they were born. I'm aware of post natal depression but not the possibility of psychosis. I know that where I used to live, there was a local woman who was suffering mentally and took herself and two children to the local train station and jumped in front of a train. It was understood to be post natal depression but sounds relatable to this news story.
The reality is, this woman is guilty of killing her children and in my opinion should take some responsibility for that. That said, hopefully this opens up understanding of just how severe these situations can be for people. If it is the psychosis that is being used as a defence, then I do feel sorry for her but at the same time, I wouldn't be cheering her on either.
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