A declining standard of living
Discussion
It's something that gets talked about, but not with any great detail.
I'm retired, but when I look back to the late 70s, early 80s, I'm sure it's not all rose tinted glasses.
Same day GP appointments
Limited waiting lists for elective operations
Free or subsidised dental treatment
Affordable housing
Minimal traffic on the roads
Final salary pensions
Cheap gas and electric
Weekly bin collections
Yes, somethings have improved. A better understanding of cancer and treatments, technological efficiencies, but why have we allowed the other things to deteriorate?
I'm retired, but when I look back to the late 70s, early 80s, I'm sure it's not all rose tinted glasses.
Same day GP appointments
Limited waiting lists for elective operations
Free or subsidised dental treatment
Affordable housing
Minimal traffic on the roads
Final salary pensions
Cheap gas and electric
Weekly bin collections
Yes, somethings have improved. A better understanding of cancer and treatments, technological efficiencies, but why have we allowed the other things to deteriorate?
Back in the late 70s and 80s there will have been 70 year olds saying things were much better when the were younger.
Have living standards declined or just changed.
Look at housing estates in the 70s and 80s are they worse or better now?
Having said that…
One thing that has changed is the wealth inequality and distribution- living standards aren't too shabby these days if you are wealthy.
People are also living longer than then, and that costs
Have living standards declined or just changed.
Look at housing estates in the 70s and 80s are they worse or better now?
Having said that…
One thing that has changed is the wealth inequality and distribution- living standards aren't too shabby these days if you are wealthy.
People are also living longer than then, and that costs
Slow.Patrol said:
It's something that gets talked about, but not with any great detail.
I'm retired, but when I look back to the late 70s, early 80s, I'm sure it's not all rose tinted glasses.
Same day GP appointments
Limited waiting lists for elective operations
Free or subsidised dental treatment
Affordable housing
Minimal traffic on the roads
Final salary pensions
Cheap gas and electric
Weekly bin collections
Yes, somethings have improved. A better understanding of cancer and treatments, technological efficiencies, but why have we allowed the other things to deteriorate?
Too few tax payers and too many people taking out of the system.I'm retired, but when I look back to the late 70s, early 80s, I'm sure it's not all rose tinted glasses.
Same day GP appointments
Limited waiting lists for elective operations
Free or subsidised dental treatment
Affordable housing
Minimal traffic on the roads
Final salary pensions
Cheap gas and electric
Weekly bin collections
Yes, somethings have improved. A better understanding of cancer and treatments, technological efficiencies, but why have we allowed the other things to deteriorate?
I'd say in the 70's and 80's there was:
Lower expectations - there were still a lot of people around with memories of wartime and post wartime Britain and the 'make so and mend', 'waste not want not' mindset.
People didn't live as long. Medical advances were yet to really bite. People worked from a young age to retirement and often died within a few years. Far less was spent supporting the old and unwell.
Less consumerism. Simply, there wasn't as much crap to prize you from the money you had. Marketing was far less sophisticated and it was a time when credit and debt were still seen as a thing to be embarrassed by.
Less greed. People were generally more content with their lot and weren't chasing money as much.
Lower expectations - there were still a lot of people around with memories of wartime and post wartime Britain and the 'make so and mend', 'waste not want not' mindset.
People didn't live as long. Medical advances were yet to really bite. People worked from a young age to retirement and often died within a few years. Far less was spent supporting the old and unwell.
Less consumerism. Simply, there wasn't as much crap to prize you from the money you had. Marketing was far less sophisticated and it was a time when credit and debt were still seen as a thing to be embarrassed by.
Less greed. People were generally more content with their lot and weren't chasing money as much.
For me selling everything to private companies was always inevitable but the regulation of them has been a joke, water being an obvious example, we are now having to pay to rectify stuff that should have been as part of their remit, when all that money was given to people for doing very little yet making money as they are a necessity.
That is the start.
We are also to blame, too lazy, too obsessed with cheapness (not helped by corporate greed I admit), hence the rise and reliance on people doing all the crap jobs, which are basically now ALL immigrants, couriers, taxi's food delivery (an entirely unnecessary industry totally reliant on immigrants to survive and our laziness) washing cars, doing nails, it is all driving the gig economy and therefore mass immigration. This is OUR fault.
Why does my broad band HAVE to increase every year, so I can basically pay for them to send out endless leaflets and flyers and NOT employ decent customer service people to deal with any issues? How did broadband become a thing that automatically goes up without question, who paid that pay off to OFCOM!
Insurance play an ever larger role in our lives, health and safety is littered with risk and insurance, hence why there are endless barriers, and speed limits and restrictions on everything, it is all down to insurance and payouts.
That is the start.
We are also to blame, too lazy, too obsessed with cheapness (not helped by corporate greed I admit), hence the rise and reliance on people doing all the crap jobs, which are basically now ALL immigrants, couriers, taxi's food delivery (an entirely unnecessary industry totally reliant on immigrants to survive and our laziness) washing cars, doing nails, it is all driving the gig economy and therefore mass immigration. This is OUR fault.
Why does my broad band HAVE to increase every year, so I can basically pay for them to send out endless leaflets and flyers and NOT employ decent customer service people to deal with any issues? How did broadband become a thing that automatically goes up without question, who paid that pay off to OFCOM!
Insurance play an ever larger role in our lives, health and safety is littered with risk and insurance, hence why there are endless barriers, and speed limits and restrictions on everything, it is all down to insurance and payouts.
Up until the late 1980s, many ordinary people (including my maternal grandparents) had only an outside toilet.
Into the 1980s:
Double glazing was unusual.
Central heating hadn't been retro-fitted to old houses.
Households would have 0-1 car, often rusting and requiring work to pass the MOT.
TV was very limited.
No Internet for shopping or entertainment. Books were less easily available.
Eating out wasn't something that many people were able to do very often.
Food was quite basic, with limited choice and much of it seasonal.
A package holiday in Spain was exotic.
Many people still married somebody from the same village/town.
Middle aged/Old men had fought in the Second World War.
Into the 1980s:
Double glazing was unusual.
Central heating hadn't been retro-fitted to old houses.
Households would have 0-1 car, often rusting and requiring work to pass the MOT.
TV was very limited.
No Internet for shopping or entertainment. Books were less easily available.
Eating out wasn't something that many people were able to do very often.
Food was quite basic, with limited choice and much of it seasonal.
A package holiday in Spain was exotic.
Many people still married somebody from the same village/town.
Middle aged/Old men had fought in the Second World War.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 11th February 09:26
wyson said:
You can have the first two and fast dental care if you go private. The capacity exists, but has been rationed on the NHS.
It’s not rationed. It’s simply that the NHS doesn’t pay enough. With education and most of the health service it’s easy to hide the under funding behind political rhetoric, but dentistry shows it bright and clear. Dentists were told they had to do work for less, often less than it costs them, so lots went “stuff this I’m not doing NHS work”. Carl_VivaEspana said:
there's too many pensioners.
To a degree, the number of pensioners hasn't gone up massively due to increases in retirement age. However we have 50% of young people delaying working by 3-4 years by going to university and a declining birth rate. Plus two thirds of my generation used to leave school at 16 and now it's 18. (A remnant of the Tony Blair "Education, education, education" policy). The increase to 67 will start to have an effect in the next year and there are plans for this to be increased to 68 in the next 15 years.
One thing that has improved is the number of years of retirement, although I think this has peaked. Not just because of the increase in state pension retirement age, but also due to unhealthier lifestyles.
Slow.Patrol said:
One thing that has improved is the number of years of retirement, although I think this has peaked. Not just because of the increase in state pension retirement age, but also due to unhealthier lifestyles.
Yes. People who have looked after themselves and have a middle income through a decent pension can currently have a good, healthy, long retirement.Many people are in terrible health, often as a result of poor lifestyle choices, and don't have a lot of money.
In the future, many people will have very little in the way of pension provision or savings and many will still be paying off mortgages into old age.
I expect the (potential) arc for a middle ish class someone in their 70s/ 80s - secure career, reasonably affordable property, worthwhile retirement, half decent services - will be looked back upon as an unrepeatable blip created by a unique set of circumstances.
It never happened before and it won't happen again.
I certainly wouldn't want to have lived the average life prior to that. Dunno what comes after it, but the change will be jarring and part of the change will be accepting that things ain't rolling back.
It never happened before and it won't happen again.
I certainly wouldn't want to have lived the average life prior to that. Dunno what comes after it, but the change will be jarring and part of the change will be accepting that things ain't rolling back.
Slow.Patrol said:
To a degree, the number of pensioners hasn't gone up massively due to increases in retirement age. However we have 50% of young people delaying working by 3-4 years by going to university and a declining birth rate. Plus two thirds of my generation used to leave school at 16 and now it's 18. (A remnant of the Tony Blair "Education, education, education" policy)
You can't pin that on Blair as he picked up the baton from Tories and ran with it. Polytechnics were abolished by the Tories in 1992 and made HE & universities more accessible and attainable. The other thing is the decline in industry and the recognition of boys underperforming in schools; there was a time you could leave school at 16 and get a job in the factory or work the mines. Again in the 90s there's also the recognition of NEET - Not in Education, Employment or Training.Massive inflation hasn't helped Gold has gone from £14.60 under Bretton Woods to £3,684 per ounce today. That is the effect of governments being able to print money. Not that we pay for everything with gold or especially need it for anything, but it is an interesting marker for a real asset.
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