Corruption in politics - is it ever going to stop?
Discussion
Must admit that the allegations of corruption in Liverpool council had gone under my radar.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c14x5m51y62o.a...
It seems lately that councils and government are institutionally corrupt.
I used to think that the UK was a shining example, but we appear to be sinking into the cess pit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c14x5m51y62o.a...
It seems lately that councils and government are institutionally corrupt.
I used to think that the UK was a shining example, but we appear to be sinking into the cess pit.
There's always some amount of back-scratching, corruption, looking after your mates at all levels of government.
From personal experience in the UK and overseas I've known:
1) A large city councillor awarding street cleaning contracts to a friend they went to school with, despite not being the cheapest or the best.
2) A local government organisation writing an equipment specification with the help of a supplier, so that no one else could be fully compliant, thus ensuring the preferred supplier got the work.
3) Someone within a government organisation who had a friend that owned an equipment manufacturer. He'd tell his friend everyone else's tender price so his friend could be slightly cheaper.
4) A supplier being told to submit an alternative proposal because that's what the government organisation really wanted but couldn't put in the tender specification. The supplier was awarded the job because of their "innovative solution" (which happened to be what the government staff wanted)
From personal experience in the UK and overseas I've known:
1) A large city councillor awarding street cleaning contracts to a friend they went to school with, despite not being the cheapest or the best.
2) A local government organisation writing an equipment specification with the help of a supplier, so that no one else could be fully compliant, thus ensuring the preferred supplier got the work.
3) Someone within a government organisation who had a friend that owned an equipment manufacturer. He'd tell his friend everyone else's tender price so his friend could be slightly cheaper.
4) A supplier being told to submit an alternative proposal because that's what the government organisation really wanted but couldn't put in the tender specification. The supplier was awarded the job because of their "innovative solution" (which happened to be what the government staff wanted)
Bob Walpole, the first prime minister to be called prime minister (citation required), was charged with corruption and spent months in the Tower, only to be found NG. Whether there was outright corruption or not is the subject of some argument, although he built Houghton Hall with money earned by insider dealing (they say) on the South Sea Bubble, which ruined so many others, and affected the country. It is accepted there was graft, with jobs for the boys, but this was felt normal at the time, and probably was. He manipulated parliament, with everyone saying he was very clever to do it, and his sexual habits were notorious and a little concerning.
He spent 20 years, one way or the other, as PM. He came out a very rich man.
He's regarded as the most corrupt PM in UK history, but is lauded as one of our best PMs. Go figure.
He spent 20 years, one way or the other, as PM. He came out a very rich man.
He's regarded as the most corrupt PM in UK history, but is lauded as one of our best PMs. Go figure.
Given that most Politicians start out small, as local councillors who don't receive a salary but get an 'allowance', it either requires you to be well off in the first place, or be highly susceptible to 'other sources' of income. And when you're being offered a few K here and there and the council/local government won't be any the wiser, it's no wonder it's so rife.
Then you have large companies and rich people giving political parties donations. They always want their pound of flesh. it's rampant and is unlikely to ever be stopped unless money becomes worthless and everyone is treated equally.
Then you have large companies and rich people giving political parties donations. They always want their pound of flesh. it's rampant and is unlikely to ever be stopped unless money becomes worthless and everyone is treated equally.
Compared to what's going on in plain sight in the US that all seems quite amateurish.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/16/tr...
That said, the UK has historically been quite good at legalising various forms of corruption while pretending it's setting some sort of international standard, recipients of public contracts making donations to political parties being one particularly egregious example. Over the last few decades money has got both more concentrated in fewer hands and also better at buying power and influence.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/16/tr...
That said, the UK has historically been quite good at legalising various forms of corruption while pretending it's setting some sort of international standard, recipients of public contracts making donations to political parties being one particularly egregious example. Over the last few decades money has got both more concentrated in fewer hands and also better at buying power and influence.
Slow.Patrol said:
It seems lately that councils and government are institutionally corrupt.
I used to think that the UK was a shining example, but we appear to be sinking into the cess pit.
NopeI used to think that the UK was a shining example, but we appear to be sinking into the cess pit.
What you (and others posters with personal anecdotes) are describing is specific, individual failures in obvious breach of the law.
This is not institutional to me. It is a handful of weak spots getting through a well defined governance system.
Councils procure £billions of services each year.
But of course people want to cut public sector "red tape" and cull "wasteful" layers of management.
The risk of procurement challenge is high on my organisation's risk register, and we have a lot of training and governance in place to make sure it's done properly.
Though it is like herding cats. Luckily I don't deal with that area much anymore.
Ian Geary said:
Nope
What you (and others posters with personal anecdotes) are describing is specific, individual failures in obvious breach of the law.
This is not institutional to me. It is a handful of weak spots getting through a well defined governance system.
Councils procure £billions of services each year.
But of course people want to cut public sector "red tape" and cull "wasteful" layers of management.
The risk of procurement challenge is high on my organisation's risk register, and we have a lot of training and governance in place to make sure it's done properly.
Though it is like herding cats. Luckily I don't deal with that area much anymore.
I agree. There seems to be an acceptance of graft in the US, particularly so with senators of some states. It's what happens seems to be the mantra.What you (and others posters with personal anecdotes) are describing is specific, individual failures in obvious breach of the law.
This is not institutional to me. It is a handful of weak spots getting through a well defined governance system.
Councils procure £billions of services each year.
But of course people want to cut public sector "red tape" and cull "wasteful" layers of management.
The risk of procurement challenge is high on my organisation's risk register, and we have a lot of training and governance in place to make sure it's done properly.
Though it is like herding cats. Luckily I don't deal with that area much anymore.
It's common to paint all in respect to the behaviour of the few whose behaviour falls short of optimum. I noticed it as a police officer. There are those whose behaviour is appalling - the to the public as well as to me - and, for some reason, this is felt to permeate the whole of the Job. 'I distrust you all because of what happened to my uncle Ted back when he was a kid.' Back in the latter days of Thatcher, there were more MPs in prison than police.
The same goes for journalists. We see them nightly, putting their health and, on occasion, lives at risk to bring us the news. Yet, because of the behaviour of man, although not all, in printed media, they are derided. MSM is called out. Some believe what they read on twitter and facebook, despite strong evidence that it is manipulated, yet say they 'never read' mainstream news, where they can see it happening.
Doctors - for them it is different. The serial killer with the most murders? A doctor, yet all are heroes. Lawyers - I could tell you some stories, some anecdotes, but facts about the systems that protect them, but it's the police who circle the wagons.
There's corruption and dishonesty in all walks of life.
I was on evening classes for writing, with a colleague. We were both in charge of departments dealing with processing charges, me traffic and criminal, he tickets. Also on the course were a selection of mainly middle class people, mostly women, two of whom had received speeding tickets, two each. They'd both driven through a speed camera on the way to an meeting and while they were there, the camera was turned around and they were caught on the return journey. They asked my colleague how much it would cost them to have the tickets disappeared as they feared totting up, one in line for a ban. He was acutely embarrassed. He said, 'No. It goes against everything I believe in. I wouldn't know how to in any case.' Neither woman spoke to him or me for the balance of the course, apart from saying they were willing to pay a lot.
If anything, it seems that here in the UK, our politicians don't stray as much as many on the continent and particularly the US. Further, if anything, as the media is more willing to expose those who break the law, I'd suggest that, although it might appear our politicians are rampantly dishonest, it is, if anything, the opposite. It went on before, but wasn't reported.
It'll never stop. It's who we are.
The impression of greater corruption today could be simply due to our better ability to be aware of it.
Before the internet there were the national newspapers, local newspapers and the national broadcasters.
If a local newspaper picked up on something really bad, the story might get picked up by the nationals, maybe not.
There was no worldwide channel for rumours or allegations like there is today.
Before the internet there were the national newspapers, local newspapers and the national broadcasters.
If a local newspaper picked up on something really bad, the story might get picked up by the nationals, maybe not.
There was no worldwide channel for rumours or allegations like there is today.
I was half watching a TV documentary a few weeks ago that showed a country where there was such a clamp down on local corruption with officials ending up in jail, that now nothing gets done because local officials are so frightened of going the same way. I appreciate it would help if I could remember which country it was. 
Trash_panda said:
Its always been corrupt, now some are just more brazen about it and think themselves untouchable as they've been doing it for so long.
Others are just better at hiding it (vip lane during covid) or called it lobbying
Indeed - Not picking on her specifically, but as a well known example, the general consensus seems to be that Angela Rayner has a net worth of between £4.5M and 6M depending on where you read it on t'Internet. Others are just better at hiding it (vip lane during covid) or called it lobbying
Yet she has been a care-worker, union-rep, and an MP., -- Even if you took every penny of her salary (pre-tax) over the years that she has been in work, you can't get anywhere near the supposed net worth.
She clearly hasn't made that kindof money from her salary...It's right there in plain sight, yet no-one cares.......
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