Child at independent school denied NHS treatment
Discussion
Interesting story in the news. If true in the fullest sense, rather concerning.
Yes, it's the Daily Mail but no smoke without fire.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/...
I hope this is not a sign of things to come.
Yes, it's the Daily Mail but no smoke without fire.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/...
I hope this is not a sign of things to come.
I smell bulls
t.
NHS services are provided on clinical need, not what school you go to, no matter what's on the questionnaire.
Reading down ....
And last month we revealed how young cancer patients from private schools had to pay £115 an hour for tutoring in an Edinburgh hospital's wards, while it is provided free to state school pupils by the city council.
I'm sure the free option was available.
Is there any independent confirmation that the NHS is discriminating based on school type? Educated guess is no. More likely educational accommodations whilst in therapy rather than the therapy given.
I'm against private schools, that won't change, but this variety of wibble gives me some sympathy for those trying to sensibly argue for them rather than those trying to create hysteria.
ETA, the hysteria does not do the private schools argument any favours when found to be false.
t.NHS services are provided on clinical need, not what school you go to, no matter what's on the questionnaire.
Reading down ....
And last month we revealed how young cancer patients from private schools had to pay £115 an hour for tutoring in an Edinburgh hospital's wards, while it is provided free to state school pupils by the city council.
I'm sure the free option was available.
Is there any independent confirmation that the NHS is discriminating based on school type? Educated guess is no. More likely educational accommodations whilst in therapy rather than the therapy given.
I'm against private schools, that won't change, but this variety of wibble gives me some sympathy for those trying to sensibly argue for them rather than those trying to create hysteria.
ETA, the hysteria does not do the private schools argument any favours when found to be false.
Edited by cheesejunkie on Sunday 8th June 11:40
DaveCWK said:
This isn't privatisation. Just manifested prejudice & political extremism.
The NHS will not treat the child the parent has two choices 1 Do not get treatment for the child.
2 Pay for treatment for the child.
As you say it is a manifested prejudice & political extremism, which is causing privatization by the back door.
FourWheelDrift said:
Do doctors ask what school the child goes to before providing health services now?
Do they also ask how much their house is worth, you know in full Daily Mail style too.
On the trolley - "Hang on, has anyone checked this stroke patient's school?"Do they also ask how much their house is worth, you know in full Daily Mail style too.
Aftercare that includes educational needs more than likely.
Joke is that in private health care they would be more likely to.
Edited by cheesejunkie on Sunday 8th June 11:48
I think I'd like to know more before forming a judgement.
What does this mean in plain English?
“Occupational therapy services are available to all school-age children who have an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) either through the NHS or the local authority. For children without an EHCP, advice may be available through existing NHS services provided in state school.”
What does this mean in plain English?
“Occupational therapy services are available to all school-age children who have an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) either through the NHS or the local authority. For children without an EHCP, advice may be available through existing NHS services provided in state school.”
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I think I'd like to know more before forming a judgement.
What does this mean in plain English?
Occupational therapy services are available to all school-age children who have an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) either through the NHS or the local authority. For children without an EHCP, advice may be available through existing NHS services provided in state school.
An EHCP is a legal document outlining the special needs that a young person is entitled to, provided by the local authority. Independent schools must have been approved by the Secretary of State under section 41 of the Children and Families Act (CFA) 2014 as a school at which a parent or young person can request to be named in an EHC plan. It may be that the independent school in question is not a section 41 independent school, so the there is no duty on the LA to name this school in an EHCP. It might be that the LA commissions certain services from the NHS for pupils with an EHCP.What does this mean in plain English?
Occupational therapy services are available to all school-age children who have an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) either through the NHS or the local authority. For children without an EHCP, advice may be available through existing NHS services provided in state school.
There is probably a lot of detail missing from this article, but the policy around EHCPs and private schools pre-dates the current government by many years.
cheesejunkie said:
I smell bullst.
NHS services are provided on clinical need, not what school you go to, no matter what's on the questionnaire.
Reading down ....
And last month we revealed how young cancer patients from private schools had to pay £115 an hour for tutoring in an Edinburgh hospital's wards, while it is provided free to state school pupils by the city council.
I'm sure the free option was available.
Is there any independent confirmation that the NHS is discriminating based on school type? Educated guess is no. More likely educational accommodations whilst in therapy rather than the therapy given.
I'm against private schools, that won't change, but this variety of wibble gives me some sympathy for those trying to sensibly argue for them rather than those trying to create hysteria.
ETA, the hysteria does not do the private schools argument any favours when found to be false.
What these 3 services - occupational health, mental health and in-patient education - have in common is that they are generally the responsibility of the local authority, not the NHS. The LA may provide the service themselves or often they will commission the NHS to do so. The problem with the latter is that it is then not clear to the public that it isn't actually a NHS service.t.NHS services are provided on clinical need, not what school you go to, no matter what's on the questionnaire.
Reading down ....
And last month we revealed how young cancer patients from private schools had to pay £115 an hour for tutoring in an Edinburgh hospital's wards, while it is provided free to state school pupils by the city council.
I'm sure the free option was available.
Is there any independent confirmation that the NHS is discriminating based on school type? Educated guess is no. More likely educational accommodations whilst in therapy rather than the therapy given.
I'm against private schools, that won't change, but this variety of wibble gives me some sympathy for those trying to sensibly argue for them rather than those trying to create hysteria.
ETA, the hysteria does not do the private schools argument any favours when found to be false.
Edited by cheesejunkie on Sunday 8th June 11:40
The various Education Acts make distinctions between a LA's duties to all children and duties only applicable to children in their maintained (state) schools. Those distinctions aren't always clear and some of them will need to be litigated to ensure the correct interpretation.
In the occupational health case, the LA has effectively commissioned the NHS to provide OH services to school children in the same way an employer would engage a private OH service for their employees. The argument would be that the private school has the same duty (under the Equality Act) for their pupils, mostly likely by engaging a private OH service (since they probably the lack the expertise to commission the NHS).
Likewise in-patient education services are usually provided by a team of teachers employed by the LA to work in hospitals as an extension of their maintained schools. LAs are only responsible for children in their area and so will re-charge the relevant LA for out-of-area children in their hospitals (relevant to the large national hospitals taking the sickest children from across the country). The Education Acts make specific provision for this as a duty of the LAs while private schools would have a general duty under the Equality Act. So arguably it's the private school that should foot the bill rather than the parent.
https://children.nhslothian.scot/the-rhcyp/little-...
Hill92 said:
What these 3 services - occupational health, mental health and in-patient education - have in common is that they are generally the responsibility of the local authority, not the NHS. The LA may provide the service themselves or often they will commission the NHS to do so. The problem with the latter is that it is then not clear to the public that it isn't actually a NHS service.
The various Education Acts make distinctions between a LA's duties to all children and duties only applicable to children in their maintained (state) schools. Those distinctions aren't always clear and some of them will need to be litigated to ensure the correct interpretation.
In the occupational health case, the LA has effectively commissioned the NHS to provide OH services to school children in the same way an employer would engage a private OH service for their employees. The argument would be that the private school has the same duty (under the Equality Act) for their pupils, mostly likely by engaging a private OH service (since they probably the lack the expertise to commission the NHS).
Likewise in-patient education services are usually provided by a team of teachers employed by the LA to work in hospitals as an extension of their maintained schools. LAs are only responsible for children in their area and so will re-charge the relevant LA for out-of-area children in their hospitals (relevant to the large national hospitals taking the sickest children from across the country). The Education Acts make specific provision for this as a duty of the LAs while private schools would have a general duty under the Equality Act. So arguably it's the private school that should foot the bill rather than the parent.
https://children.nhslothian.scot/the-rhcyp/little-...
Thank you. Good to hear a clearer explanation. I knew the not an NHS service part but not all the details, just had suspicions.The various Education Acts make distinctions between a LA's duties to all children and duties only applicable to children in their maintained (state) schools. Those distinctions aren't always clear and some of them will need to be litigated to ensure the correct interpretation.
In the occupational health case, the LA has effectively commissioned the NHS to provide OH services to school children in the same way an employer would engage a private OH service for their employees. The argument would be that the private school has the same duty (under the Equality Act) for their pupils, mostly likely by engaging a private OH service (since they probably the lack the expertise to commission the NHS).
Likewise in-patient education services are usually provided by a team of teachers employed by the LA to work in hospitals as an extension of their maintained schools. LAs are only responsible for children in their area and so will re-charge the relevant LA for out-of-area children in their hospitals (relevant to the large national hospitals taking the sickest children from across the country). The Education Acts make specific provision for this as a duty of the LAs while private schools would have a general duty under the Equality Act. So arguably it's the private school that should foot the bill rather than the parent.
https://children.nhslothian.scot/the-rhcyp/little-...
Interesting last sentence. I'd have some sympathy for a parent who claimed they should. But I'm guessing that if a test case proved that then private school costs would go up even more. Pay the insurance vs pay the costs type scenario. But blame the NHS is wrong.
mick987 said:
DaveCWK said:
This isn't privatisation. Just manifested prejudice & political extremism.
The NHS will not treat the child the parent has two choices 1 Do not get treatment for the child.
2 Pay for treatment for the child.
As you say it is a manifested prejudice & political extremism, which is causing privatization by the back door.
Tommo87 said:
I m guessing all such cases are due to some left wing zealot overstepping their authority.
On the other hand, it’s the DM, well known for distortion in the interests of clickbait. It’s so difficult to know whether to react with screams and prejudice or to look into the matter and decide what actually happened.Clickbait – it’s what the DM does. Not once in a while, not when something forces their hand, not in the interests of clarity and the well-being of their readers. It’s clickbait. If you believe it, there’s a cost to your credibility as that of the DM no longer exists.
Derek Smith said:
On the other hand, it s the DM, well known for distortion in the interests of clickbait. It s so difficult to know whether to react with screams and prejudice or to look into the matter and decide what actually happened.
Clickbait it s what the DM does. Not once in a while, not when something forces their hand, not in the interests of clarity and the well-being of their readers. It s clickbait. If you believe it, there s a cost to your credibility as that of the DM no longer exists.
They're good at what they do. I'll never deny that.Clickbait it s what the DM does. Not once in a while, not when something forces their hand, not in the interests of clarity and the well-being of their readers. It s clickbait. If you believe it, there s a cost to your credibility as that of the DM no longer exists.
I'm a second degree of separation, I don't read it, it takes someone to get outraged by a headline and link to it before I'll even consider it. Most of the time I won't. But they are good at what they do and this headline led to me reading a DM article. It works. I'm not praising it, but it works.
Getting frothy before finding out a bit more is not advisable.
cheesejunkie said:
They're good at what they do. I'll never deny that.
I'm a second degree of separation, I don't read it, it takes someone to get outraged by a headline and link to it before I'll even consider it. Most of the time I won't. But they are good at what they do and this headline led to me reading a DM article. It works. I'm not praising it, but it works.
Getting frothy before finding out a bit more is not advisable.
My son's a journo and, at least a few years ago, reckoned they were superb at what they did. He was impressed. I'm not so sure now they appear to be using bloggers whose grasp on the English language is rather tenuous. They seem to be less persuasive and the flaws in logic more obvious.I'm a second degree of separation, I don't read it, it takes someone to get outraged by a headline and link to it before I'll even consider it. Most of the time I won't. But they are good at what they do and this headline led to me reading a DM article. It works. I'm not praising it, but it works.
Getting frothy before finding out a bit more is not advisable.
Mind you, always check whatever the source.
I had an uncle, rather left of left wing, who reckoned, 'Don't believe nothing'. I did the opposite, rather smugly, and reckoned that at least they knew about double negatives. Now, they are much of a muchness, but only he gave good advice.
fflump said:
An EHCP is a legal document outlining the special needs that a young person is entitled to, provided by the local authority. Independent schools must have been approved by the Secretary of State under section 41 of the Children and Families Act (CFA) 2014 as a school at which a parent or young person can request to be named in an EHC plan. It may be that the independent school in question is not a section 41 independent school, so the there is no duty on the LA to name this school in an EHCP. It might be that the LA commissions certain services from the NHS for pupils with an EHCP.
There is probably a lot of detail missing from this article, but the policy around EHCPs and private schools pre-dates the current government by many years.
Thank you and to hill92 There is probably a lot of detail missing from this article, but the policy around EHCPs and private schools pre-dates the current government by many years.
I think that makes more sense now as to why that particular unit won't treat that particular child.
I don't know where I sit on it now.
I can understand why they won't treat the child but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with it.
cheesejunkie said:
They're good at what they do. I'll never deny that.
I'm a second degree of separation, I don't read it, it takes someone to get outraged by a headline and link to it before I'll even consider it. Most of the time I won't. But they are good at what they do and this headline led to me reading a DM article. It works. I'm not praising it, but it works.
Getting frothy before finding out a bit more is not advisable.
I always thought the first lesson you learn in NPE is to dig a bit deeper when it comes to claims made in the DM. The only time i ever read an article on there is through a link from here. I'm a second degree of separation, I don't read it, it takes someone to get outraged by a headline and link to it before I'll even consider it. Most of the time I won't. But they are good at what they do and this headline led to me reading a DM article. It works. I'm not praising it, but it works.
Getting frothy before finding out a bit more is not advisable.
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