Notting Hill Carnival Murder

[Tom8]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9yvlvx4jpo

Wow. And still this event is allowed to take place knowing what the outcome will be year after year. And this was on the family day.

[okgo]

Should run it at a car park in the middle of nowhere.

[Countdown]

Tom8 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9yvlvx4jpo

Wow. And still this event is allowed to take place knowing what the outcome will be year after year. And this was on the family day.

I'm struggling to see what the connection is between the carnival and the murder.

Was the carnival responsible for the murder?
Do murders only happen at carnival time?

Lots of domestic violence happens at Xmas. Knowing full well this is going to happen should we ban Xmas?

[ChemicalChaos]

Countdown said:

I'm struggling to see what the connection is between the carnival and the murder.

Was the carnival responsible for the murder?
Do murders only happen at carnival time?

Lots of domestic violence happens at Xmas. Knowing full well this is going to happen should we ban Xmas?

Oh come on, it's been a festival of crime and anti social behaviour for years. You don't see people boarding up shops and vacating their houses for the duration when it's a Scout Jamboree, do you?

Remember the footage of the bloke threateningly bumming the helpless WPC whilst everyone looks on and films it?

[markbigears]

Diversity is our strength … repeat 20 times

[Leicester Loyal]

Why anyone would attend this event is beyond me, every year you see groups going at each other with weapons.

[valiant]

Leicester Loyal said:

Why anyone would attend this event is beyond me, every year you see groups going at each other with weapons.

Yet over a million do and have a great time without experiencing any trouble.

[Jayzee]

ChemicalChaos said:

Countdown said:

I'm struggling to see what the connection is between the carnival and the murder.

Was the carnival responsible for the murder?
Do murders only happen at carnival time?

Lots of domestic violence happens at Xmas. Knowing full well this is going to happen should we ban Xmas?

Oh come on, it's been a festival of crime and anti social behaviour for years. You don't see people boarding up shops and vacating their houses for the duration when it's a Scout Jamboree, do you?

Remember the footage of the bloke threateningly bumming the helpless WPC whilst everyone looks on and films it?

Grew up in London during the ‘70s and ‘80s - it was pretty much like this back then.

[heisthegaffer]

What a pathetic excuse for a human being.

A right tough guy hiding behind a fragile ego and a big blade.

[Leicester Loyal]

valiant said:

Leicester Loyal said:

Why anyone would attend this event is beyond me, every year you see groups going at each other with weapons.

Yet over a million do and have a great time without experiencing any trouble.

All well and good until you're caught up in something like above.

The list of arrests every year for weapons is mental as well. People going around with huge blades on a 'family day out'.

[Gecko1978]

I suppose if 1 in 1 million commits a violent act then it's not so bad. Ultimately we would like zero deaths an zero knives. I wonder what the stats are for say Glastonbury or the Edinburgh Fringe both large gatherings etc.

[scenario8]

We can all set our own acceptable tolerances but please don’t think there’s only one act of violence at the Carnival. Or that extreme violent offences such as murder are the only negative aspects of the event for that matter.

Just to add I’m not mad keen on banning things, and accept the debate is complex, but if it must be tolerated/welcomed, I’m very glad it’s in a part of London I can very easily avoid for that week or so. I suspect I would find a stronger opinion much easier to generate if it was more local to me.

Edited by scenario8 on Thursday 10th April 09:22

[Tom8]

Gecko1978 said:

I suppose if 1 in 1 million commits a violent act then it's not so bad. Ultimately we would like zero deaths an zero knives. I wonder what the stats are for say Glastonbury or the Edinburgh Fringe both large gatherings etc.

A quick browse, Glastonbury 2023 had 19 arrests over 5 days and 215 crimes reported.
The same year at Notting Hill, over 3 days there were 10 stabbings 209 arrests.

[Dingu]

Footballs gone too then. Loads of arrests per year.

[Earthdweller]

Glastonbury, Edinburgh fringe and any other "family event" or festival you care to mention all have some crime for sure

The difference between a myriad of events up and down the country and the NHC is that to keep the death toll and serious injuries low, the NHC requires full time team working 365 days a year, huge numbers of pre event raids and arrests and on the three days that it takes place it needs ten thousand police officers to keep it under a semblance of control and all Police leave in the capital is cancelled

It isn't just the footprint of the carnival area that is affected it spans out across the entire capital and beyond where after carnival parties are held and gang scores settled

Carnival weekend is horrific to police in many London boroughs such as Hackney, Haringey, Lambeth, Brent and Southwark etc

Mobile reserves are deployed across the capital throughout the weekend and particularly on the Monday to respond to any outbreaks of disorder away from the NHC site. This is in addition to the standing Commissioners reserve

Crimes, for political reasons, are only attributed to NHC if they occur within the footprint of the Carnival

The crimes related to NHC are actually way higher than the official figures

And the above is the only reason it isn't an absolute bloodbath

Edited by Earthdweller on Thursday 10th April 09:52

[J4CKO]

Dingu said:

Footballs gone too then. Loads of arrests per year.

2000 plus games across the four divisions vs one weekend, not sure there have been any deaths recently at football matches, it has its problems but when you weigh up the number of matches, the millions attending, its comparatively low grad compared to NHC.

[Zigster]

ChemicalChaos said:

Countdown said:

I'm struggling to see what the connection is between the carnival and the murder.

Was the carnival responsible for the murder?
Do murders only happen at carnival time?

Lots of domestic violence happens at Xmas. Knowing full well this is going to happen should we ban Xmas?

Oh come on, it's been a festival of crime and anti social behaviour for years. You don't see people boarding up shops and vacating their houses for the duration when it's a Scout Jamboree, do you?

Remember the footage of the bloke threateningly bumming the helpless WPC whilst everyone looks on and films it?

You should come down to Lewes in Sussex for Bonfire Night.

[z4RRSchris]

it should be moved to hyde park, and policed properly

A mate got stabbed in the arse few years back there.

[scenario8]

Dingu said:

Footballs gone too then. Loads of arrests per year.

Well, yes, issues around football are very well documented. Across the tens of thousands of games played each year up and down the land from works teams, kids leagues, the professional game all the way up to global events there are consequences, not all of which are positive. It’s a complex discussion and you’d have to consider the myriad of positive outcomes relating to the game.

As Earthdweller notes issues surrounding NHC are in a different league when it comes to other major cultural events. The Edinburgh Festival comes to mind as a comparable. For reasons one can easily speculate the official statistics for crime directly related to the NHC are presented in a fashion that don’t represent the reality and themselves don’t take into account all the negative aspects of the event for residents, businesses and other stakeholders.

It’s a complex discussion but it is disappointing when the bigger picture isn’t appreciated.

As with many things if you were looking to find a solution you probably wouldn’t start from here - if you know what I mean.

[J4CKO]

z4RRSchris said:

it should be moved to hyde park, and policed properly

.