Time for another Brexit vote?
Poll: Time for another Brexit vote?
Total Members Polled: 490
Discussion
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51484-how-d...
There is a large and growing majority of people in the UK that think the UK was wrong to leave the UK.
At the time of the vote in 2016 there were warnings from remainers and lots of promises from leavers. However neither side knew what it would be like if we left the EU, so the electorate was voting on the basis of limited information.
Five years post Brexit we can see that pretty much all the promises of the leavers were lies or just unsubstantiated wishes. On the flip side, much of “project fear” was quite accurate: lower growth, more bureaucracy, didn’t solve immigration (just switched from EU migrants to more non EU migrants), didn’t save farmers or fishermen, etc.
With the mad orange baby in the WH to the West and Putin to the East (and China in the far east), the UK’s best interests are best protected by keeping as close to our European allies as possible. We should be leading the European block.
What I don’t understand is why no politicians are talking about a second Brexit vote. Most people agree a mistake was made, why are we not getting an opportunity to rejoin the EU?
Personally I think there should be a referendum now to decide whether the government can reopen negotiations with the EU. Assuming the EU would allow us to rejoin there should then be a second vote on the terms offered for rejoining.
No doubt the arch leavers will be frothing with comments such as “get over it you lost” as if having a referendum means we should never get the chance to vote again (ironic as under that logic we should never have had the Brexit vote in the first place).
There is a large and growing majority of people in the UK that think the UK was wrong to leave the UK.
At the time of the vote in 2016 there were warnings from remainers and lots of promises from leavers. However neither side knew what it would be like if we left the EU, so the electorate was voting on the basis of limited information.
Five years post Brexit we can see that pretty much all the promises of the leavers were lies or just unsubstantiated wishes. On the flip side, much of “project fear” was quite accurate: lower growth, more bureaucracy, didn’t solve immigration (just switched from EU migrants to more non EU migrants), didn’t save farmers or fishermen, etc.
With the mad orange baby in the WH to the West and Putin to the East (and China in the far east), the UK’s best interests are best protected by keeping as close to our European allies as possible. We should be leading the European block.
What I don’t understand is why no politicians are talking about a second Brexit vote. Most people agree a mistake was made, why are we not getting an opportunity to rejoin the EU?
Personally I think there should be a referendum now to decide whether the government can reopen negotiations with the EU. Assuming the EU would allow us to rejoin there should then be a second vote on the terms offered for rejoining.
No doubt the arch leavers will be frothing with comments such as “get over it you lost” as if having a referendum means we should never get the chance to vote again (ironic as under that logic we should never have had the Brexit vote in the first place).
I think it's been an utter mess but the people who persuaded people to vote for it and many of the people who believed their promises of cake will never admit it because it's much easier to keep lying or keep being lied to than it is to admit you lied or got completely rinsed and either promoted or voted for an act of self harm.
That said I also don't think there's any point in a referendum right now.
All it will do is give the likes of Farage and Jenrick airtime and promote the sort of toxic rhetoric we already see and hear too much of.
The current Government have a massive majority and four years.
For now just focus on building the right level of relations with whoever we need to.
That said I also don't think there's any point in a referendum right now.
All it will do is give the likes of Farage and Jenrick airtime and promote the sort of toxic rhetoric we already see and hear too much of.
The current Government have a massive majority and four years.
For now just focus on building the right level of relations with whoever we need to.
Maybe in another 5 years but I don't think the country needs to go through the turmoil of another vote right at this moment. The EU will make it extremely difficult for us to rejoin without it being hugely on their terms; this will lead to a long and fractured argument at a time when we need to be united not only with them but also with the other CANZUK countries.
In the 5 years since we left we've had Covid and a war in Ukraine to name but 2 world affecting events and yet Brexit is seen by some....you...as the cause of all our problems.
Other countries who are still in the EU are having similar problems,low or no growth, immigration etc.
Move on, make the best of where we are and what we can do to affect the future instead of looking back all the time.Anyone would think it was a halcyon time
Other countries who are still in the EU are having similar problems,low or no growth, immigration etc.
Move on, make the best of where we are and what we can do to affect the future instead of looking back all the time.Anyone would think it was a halcyon time
No, the downsides of us "leaving" were caused by the people in charge of our managed exit failing to do a decent job of it and actually decouple us properly.
We had an opportunity to actually stand on our own and govern ourselves and make our own rules but we didn't take it because the lure of the gravy train and an easy ride won or "leaders" over.
Covid would have been 100% worse if we were still properly in the EU. The euros response was woeful and expensive, we'd have been paying.
I'm convinced a poor job was done and continues to be done on purpose as a "told you so" by our masters of all political flavours.
We had an opportunity to actually stand on our own and govern ourselves and make our own rules but we didn't take it because the lure of the gravy train and an easy ride won or "leaders" over.
Covid would have been 100% worse if we were still properly in the EU. The euros response was woeful and expensive, we'd have been paying.
I'm convinced a poor job was done and continues to be done on purpose as a "told you so" by our masters of all political flavours.
Earthdweller said:
No
The US is in a mess
The EU is in an even worse mess
Jumping in with either of those would be madness, far better to steer a wise course with good governance and independence of thought and action
Note I said good governance which we seem to be lacking
Interested as to how the EU might be considered to be in a worse mess right now?!The US is in a mess
The EU is in an even worse mess
Jumping in with either of those would be madness, far better to steer a wise course with good governance and independence of thought and action
Note I said good governance which we seem to be lacking
Getragdogleg said:
No, the downsides of us "leaving" were caused by the people in charge of our managed exit failing to do a decent job of it and actually decouple us properly.
We had an opportunity to actually stand on our own and govern ourselves and make our own rules but we didn't take it because the lure of the gravy train and an easy ride won or "leaders" over.
Covid would have been 100% worse if we were still properly in the EU. The euros response was woeful and expensive, we'd have been paying.
I'm convinced a poor job was done and continues to be done on purpose as a "told you so" by our masters of all political flavours.
Agree with most of this, it wasn't the idea that was bad, it was the execution. I don’t think it was a "told you so" though. The whole negotiation was being managed by people who didn't want to leave in the first place and were too worried about offending the EU to play our cards to their full potential.We had an opportunity to actually stand on our own and govern ourselves and make our own rules but we didn't take it because the lure of the gravy train and an easy ride won or "leaders" over.
Covid would have been 100% worse if we were still properly in the EU. The euros response was woeful and expensive, we'd have been paying.
I'm convinced a poor job was done and continues to be done on purpose as a "told you so" by our masters of all political flavours.
Certain people were also too keen to be able to say "we have a deal" rather than getting the best possible deal, and publicly saying "we can't have a no-deal Brexit" basically told the EU we'd have to accept their terms. It's one thing to go into a negotiation knowing that you can't really walk away without a deal, it's quite another to openly admit as much to the other party.
The EU would set a very high bar to rejoining. Would anyone trust Starmer and his crack team to negotiate well, or understand any of the wider impacts of decisions made in that sort of negotiation?
So no, the cost of another referendum, the division it will cause, and the long term costs of rejoining all mean that we shouldn't have another vote.
Living in the corrupt and almost totalitarian EU I would have voted out.....
If under 2-Tier Kier and his bunch of cronies they even thought about re-joining there'd be a lot of people up in arms......
15 years of the conservatives was bad... but a year of socialism is much worse.... ask people on the street. I doubt anyone would vote for the bunch of lying thieves to whom they gave a majority ...
The EU is already crowing that British Forces will take a part in the EU armed forces and are already planning EU command!!!
As to the bunch of whinging, spineless, thieving socialists in Brussels, they want one thing only.. and that is more totalisarianism.... tax frees on everything, big cars, paid housing (2 x Brussels and Strasbourg), no taxes etc etc etc
and even the "right" to say they are a state (they're not!!) and not just a pernicious bureaucratic trading organisation.... not to mention an unelected EU commission with people like von der Lying and others (EU Bank run by a convicted financial criminal (OK pardoned by her f+++buddy))
IF GB were to re-join (God forbid) it'd be solely to EU conditions, loss of GB£, loss of command of our forces, forced ID cards and residentional registration, forced EU health files, London would lose it's trading to FFM and Paris, farmers would be further burdened with idiotic EU legislation..... and a thousand other deliberately aggressive ordinances against GB....
And never mind the insults to our friends and partners in CDN, AUS and NZ (as was done 50-odd years ago!!!)
If under 2-Tier Kier and his bunch of cronies they even thought about re-joining there'd be a lot of people up in arms......
15 years of the conservatives was bad... but a year of socialism is much worse.... ask people on the street. I doubt anyone would vote for the bunch of lying thieves to whom they gave a majority ...
The EU is already crowing that British Forces will take a part in the EU armed forces and are already planning EU command!!!
As to the bunch of whinging, spineless, thieving socialists in Brussels, they want one thing only.. and that is more totalisarianism.... tax frees on everything, big cars, paid housing (2 x Brussels and Strasbourg), no taxes etc etc etc
and even the "right" to say they are a state (they're not!!) and not just a pernicious bureaucratic trading organisation.... not to mention an unelected EU commission with people like von der Lying and others (EU Bank run by a convicted financial criminal (OK pardoned by her f+++buddy))
IF GB were to re-join (God forbid) it'd be solely to EU conditions, loss of GB£, loss of command of our forces, forced ID cards and residentional registration, forced EU health files, London would lose it's trading to FFM and Paris, farmers would be further burdened with idiotic EU legislation..... and a thousand other deliberately aggressive ordinances against GB....
And never mind the insults to our friends and partners in CDN, AUS and NZ (as was done 50-odd years ago!!!)
No.
I thought leaving was a mistake at the time, and the years following have only reinforced that opinion.
But it was horrendously divisive, there should have been a plan for 'Leave winning' (which I don't think there was) and the EU would vindictively pull our trousers down if we mentioned rejoining.
We can (and should) work closer with them on certain things like trade that could and should be mutually beneficial but that's it.
I thought leaving was a mistake at the time, and the years following have only reinforced that opinion.
But it was horrendously divisive, there should have been a plan for 'Leave winning' (which I don't think there was) and the EU would vindictively pull our trousers down if we mentioned rejoining.
We can (and should) work closer with them on certain things like trade that could and should be mutually beneficial but that's it.
Tricky one...
I voted remain because I thought, on balance, that we were better off remaining, but I was about 52% remain 48% leave in my head. Interesting then that the public vote delivered the same numbers, albeit the other way round.
Some older people who I know, who were very vocal brexit supporters, were all in favour of joining the EEC in the first place. They all agreed that a European trading bloc was a good thing. It's the unmitigated interference from a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels that's turned them against it, and I can see their point. There were often times when I'd hear about some of the stuff that was being enforced on us and I though the same, why can't we rid ourselves of this?
Well, we did...
Except, it appears we didn't. Labour seem to be quite intent on adopting the same intrusive, interfering, freedom-eroding nonsense that we'd have been subjected to if we had remained, so all we seem to have done a result of leaving is sacrifice the economic advantages while keeping the crap that people were voting to get rid of.
I voted remain because I thought, on balance, that we were better off remaining, but I was about 52% remain 48% leave in my head. Interesting then that the public vote delivered the same numbers, albeit the other way round.
Some older people who I know, who were very vocal brexit supporters, were all in favour of joining the EEC in the first place. They all agreed that a European trading bloc was a good thing. It's the unmitigated interference from a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels that's turned them against it, and I can see their point. There were often times when I'd hear about some of the stuff that was being enforced on us and I though the same, why can't we rid ourselves of this?
Well, we did...
Except, it appears we didn't. Labour seem to be quite intent on adopting the same intrusive, interfering, freedom-eroding nonsense that we'd have been subjected to if we had remained, so all we seem to have done a result of leaving is sacrifice the economic advantages while keeping the crap that people were voting to get rid of.
Getragdogleg said:
No, the downsides of us "leaving" were caused by the people in charge of our managed exit failing to do a decent job of it and actually decouple us properly.
We had an opportunity to actually stand on our own and govern ourselves and make our own rules but we didn't take it because the lure of the gravy train and an easy ride won or "leaders" over.
Covid would have been 100% worse if we were still properly in the EU. The euros response was woeful and expensive, we'd have been paying.
I'm convinced a poor job was done and continues to be done on purpose as a "told you so" by our masters of all political flavours.
But we knew our politicians were crap before the Brexit vote so why do you think they’d suddenly gain competence in dealing with the process of our leaving?We had an opportunity to actually stand on our own and govern ourselves and make our own rules but we didn't take it because the lure of the gravy train and an easy ride won or "leaders" over.
Covid would have been 100% worse if we were still properly in the EU. The euros response was woeful and expensive, we'd have been paying.
I'm convinced a poor job was done and continues to be done on purpose as a "told you so" by our masters of all political flavours.
It was always going to be a s
tshow with the ‘talent’ we had so why you complain it’s been mismanaged deliberately is a bit strange since it was always going to be mismanaged and end up a mess.Southerner said:
Earthdweller said:
No
The US is in a mess
The EU is in an even worse mess
Jumping in with either of those would be madness, far better to steer a wise course with good governance and independence of thought and action
Note I said good governance which we seem to be lacking
Interested as to how the EU might be considered to be in a worse mess right now?!The US is in a mess
The EU is in an even worse mess
Jumping in with either of those would be madness, far better to steer a wise course with good governance and independence of thought and action
Note I said good governance which we seem to be lacking
With the EU at the bottom of a cycle, and the US acting like a bully, it’s probably a good time to open negotiations.
And then maybe, in due course, vote on some concrete proposals, not just a fairy story.
I voted remain, mainly as any major change undertaken by party politicians is a disaster and I didn’t believe the wild claims and knew a lot of the chat was utter nonsense.
I also had at the time a factory manufacturing for us in Greece under our badge and were the UK distributor for a German brand. Import was easy, seamless and that caused a massive change, and no, the jobs wouldn’t just come back to the UK, these were patented items that were installed and serviced by UK staff.
I think I’d be just as sceptical with a rejoin scenario though, party politics here and in the USA is far too limiting and chock full of sponsored folk owned by old and new money.
And then maybe, in due course, vote on some concrete proposals, not just a fairy story.
I voted remain, mainly as any major change undertaken by party politicians is a disaster and I didn’t believe the wild claims and knew a lot of the chat was utter nonsense.
I also had at the time a factory manufacturing for us in Greece under our badge and were the UK distributor for a German brand. Import was easy, seamless and that caused a massive change, and no, the jobs wouldn’t just come back to the UK, these were patented items that were installed and serviced by UK staff.
I think I’d be just as sceptical with a rejoin scenario though, party politics here and in the USA is far too limiting and chock full of sponsored folk owned by old and new money.
MitchT said:
Except, it appears we didn't. Labour seem to be quite intent on adopting the same intrusive, interfering, freedom-eroding nonsense that we'd have been subjected to if we had remained, so all we seem to have done a result of leaving is sacrifice the economic advantages while keeping the crap that people were voting to get rid of.
Brexit vote was in 2016, we left on 1st Jan 2020, Labour came to power in July 2024. The Brexit vote called by a Tory PM to shut down the right wing of the party. All the negotiations were done by Tory PMs. All the implementation was done by Tory PMs.
Trying to somehow blame Labour for something which happened 8 years before they came to power is some impressive mental gymnastics even by the usual standards of NP+E. If the Tories had really made the most of the Leave opportunities, we had a roaring economy, and everything was sunny uplands then what Labour are doing now wouldn't matter. As it is, we've made very little of the opportunities, and most of the consequences have been negative.
Anyway, in answer to the OP - over time the consensus is going to swing away from Leave towards Remain simply because the Leave voters are gradually dying off. There clearly hasn't been a huge benefit to leaving, and I highly doubt many young people who voted Remain have changed their minds. No doubt there have also been some Leave voters who would vote differently if the question was asked again tomorrow.
It's not hard to see us re-joining in a decade or so.
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