CECOT - Trump related

[ChevronB19]

This can’t possibly be justified? It’s pure cruelty.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14373953/...

[bloomen]

If you're a current inmate in that place you've firmly reached the end of the road. It's their equivalent of the death penalty, only probably worse.

You'd think the odd book, beyond the bible, and mattress pad might be permissable.

Can't see how anyone can be exported from the US.

There'll be a million appeals before that ever happens which will highlight reams of broken laws and ignored rights, but I'm not sure how much that matters with things as they are.

[LivLL]

Having spent a lot of time in San Salvador in the early noughties and seeing how much worse it got (seemed impossible) as time went on I only see this as a positive for the country. The levels of violence ordinary people were facing were astonishing and the change (although not perfect) since this program started taking effect have been eye opening.

To a citizen of a country like ours which has low crime rates and very little armed gang activity it may seem cruel or unfair, it's not in my opinion.

I'm an advocate of much longer terms in our own prisons for violent crime, not because it's more of deterrent but more that those convicted and incarcerated will not be given the opportunity to commit crime again. The gang members can't harm the public so long as they are locked up and that's a good thing.

Breaking the gangs and the entry level for kids is a mission for the entire country and one they'll struggle to achieve but this must be helping.

[bloomen]

LivLL said:

Breaking the gangs and the entry level for kids is a mission for the entire country and one they'll struggle to achieve but this must be helping.

It's one of those things that's very hard to pass judgement on without experiencing what life was like when they were running riot.

But El Salvador had a fairly unique set of issues so were able to do something about it with the will in place. Not sure it can be replicated elsewhere.

The gangs were local, visible and their armed forces and law enforcement weren't wholly compromised.

It's not going to work on powerful cartels that span continents.

[LivLL]

Agreed.

[shirt]

unusually decent journalism for the DM there


quote: Death would be infinitely more merciful.

is exactly what i was thinking up to that point. i agree with the poster above about el salvador having a unique situation, and this is certainly a response / deterrent that is working.

only i do sometimes think about crimes that are just incompatible with a moral society of any kind. things that people of any leaning, religion or outlook simply don't tolerate. in this case, is it not more humane to kill them?

[Bill]

shirt said:

is it not more humane to kill them?

Probably.

Or you could stop treating them worse than animals.

As someone has said, unusually decent journalism from the Wail. But , given they were allowed access, this is the best spin on it possible. So what's gone on to cow these people? What they've done is awful, but I'm not sure what's happening to them is any better.

[BunkMoreland]

Loving reading the usual handwringers on here saying "how terrible that violent psychopathic criminals who murder women and children are treated like the degenerates they are"

El Salvador is a hole. I care not one iota for the people in the jail.

I wish the UK had similar levels of harshness in our jails to REALLY impress upon our feral citizens that there ARE consequences for stty behaviour!

I know of a guy released after ~4 years (of a 10) for importing coke. He's pretty much gone straight back into that game on release. You think if he was in a CECOT type facility he'd be doing that? Or would he put more weight on going straight?

[Bill]

Just as I knew someone would pop up wishing the same fate on petty vandals and Suron riders.

As awful as these people are they are a product of their environment, eat or be eaten. What do you think the guards are like to control people like this?

[shirt]

Bill said:

shirt said:

is it not more humane to kill them?

Probably.

Or you could stop treating them worse than animals.

As someone has said, unusually decent journalism from the Wail. But , given they were allowed access, this is the best spin on it possible. So what's gone on to cow these people? What they've done is awful, but I'm not sure what's happening to them is any better.

For clarity, I agree entirely with your first sentence. I am not an eye for an eye person as it reduces our own humanity to inflict that kind of treatment.

Only if say someone of sound mind has committed the type of crime that is simply unacceptable to society. The kind of thing the article states early on. Society has no use for them in any shape or form.

Is it then morally better to house them even in a small nicely furnished studio where they have food and a comfortable bed, but never see the outside world again and have no practical contact with it until they die. Or kill them?

[Bill]

shirt said:

For clarity, I agree entirely with your first sentence. I am not an eye for an eye person as it reduces our own humanity to inflict that kind of treatment.

Only if say someone of sound mind has committed the type of crime that is simply unacceptable to society. The kind of thing the article states early on. Society has no use for them in any shape or form.

Is it then morally better to house them even in a small nicely furnished studio where they have food and a comfortable bed, but never see the outside world again and have no practical contact with it until they die. Or kill them?

It does seem that the justice system has been rushed. I am sure many of these people have done heinous things and deserve everything that is coming to them but we have no idea how many have been swept up alongside who don't. Treating them with a little humanity seems a small price given they will never be let out.

[BunkMoreland]

Bill said:

Just as I knew someone would pop up wishing the same fate on petty vandals and Suron riders.

The way NYC was turned from a crime stfest of the 80s and 90s into one of the safer cities in the US was to go after the petty stuff. The broken window effect.

Switzerland has MENTAL punishments for stuff we (or rather our wky politicians who never see it) don't consider that serious.

I'd rather live in Zurich than London frankly

[Timothy Bucktu]

These Men are Axel Rudakubana levels of absolute scum and depravity. I wouldn't waste any time worrying about any of them.

[Murph7355]

Timothy Bucktu said:

These Men are Axel Rudakubana levels of absolute scum and depravity. I wouldn't waste any time worrying about any of them.

No WiFi or phone signals. Treatment doesn't get worse than that....

[paulguitar]

BunkMoreland said:

Loving reading the usual handwringers on here saying "how terrible that violent psychopathic criminals who murder women and children are treated like the degenerates they are"

Who has said that?

[eyebeebe]

BunkMoreland said:

Switzerland has MENTAL punishments for stuff we (or rather our wky politicians who never see it) don't consider that serious.

I'd rather live in Zurich than London frankly

Such as? I do live there and beyond fines that can be proportionate to income, I can’t think of any.

[Hereward]

Timothy Bucktu said:

These Men are Axel Rudakubana levels of absolute scum and depravity. I wouldn't waste any time worrying about any of them.

My sentiments too. Sub-human treatment for sub-humans. If it acts as a deterrent to wannabe gangsters and keeps the population safe then good job.

[BunkMoreland]

eyebeebe said:

Such as? I do live there and beyond fines that can be proportionate to income, I can’t think of any.

I guess that's what I was thinking of.

But if the sentences aren't as severe as I thought them. Why isn't Zurich the suron infested, weed stinking, anti social, crap driving, chav infested st hole that London has become in the last 10years?