UK demands access to Apple users' encrypted data

UK demands access to Apple users' encrypted data

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Discussion

eldar

Original Poster:

23,858 posts

211 months

Friday 7th February
quotequote all
UK demands access to Apple users' encrypted data

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20g288yldko

Interesting demand, very far reaching implications.

CLK-GTR

1,490 posts

260 months

Friday 7th February
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Considering they told the Americans to sod off when they tried this I can't see them doing anything but laugh us out of the building.

Dingu

4,885 posts

45 months

Friday 7th February
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CLK-GTR said:
Considering they told the Americans to sod off when they tried this I can't see them doing anything but laugh us out of the building.
I hope they do.

Absolutely overreach of the state.

steveatesh

5,163 posts

179 months

Friday 7th February
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Dingu said:
I hope they do.

Absolutely overreach of the state.
Absolutely agree… I can’t see Apple doing this as it would compromise their system worldwide I assume?


MitchT

16,732 posts

224 months

Friday 7th February
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Are other platfroms already open to the government or are they just wanting access to Apple's cloud? The news is focusing on Apple but surely it would apply equally to all?

Evercross

6,625 posts

79 months

Friday 7th February
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Musk - nope
Zuckerberg - nope
Bezos - nope
Cook - yep!

-Cappo-

20,171 posts

218 months

Friday 7th February
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Did I hear right that Apple have said they'll pull all cloud services from the UK if the Govt get this through? In that scenario, what happens to a UK user's iCloud data? (Photos etc).

MitchT

16,732 posts

224 months

Friday 7th February
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Looks like my job for the weekend is to copy all my iCloud content to an external HD!

2Btoo

3,638 posts

218 months

Friday 7th February
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Dingu said:
CLK-GTR said:
Considering they told the Americans to sod off when they tried this I can't see them doing anything but laugh us out of the building.
I hope they do.

Absolutely overreach of the state.
Very much this.

It's so ridiculous it's almost an April fool.

milkround

1,276 posts

94 months

Friday 7th February
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steveatesh said:
Absolutely agree… I can’t see Apple doing this as it would compromise their system worldwide I assume?
The law applies around the world. How the uk government will enforce it is anyone’s guess. But it’s scary legislation. It’s a secret demand to create back doors into secure systems…. And the tech companies can’t even ignore it while appealing. They need to give access when the request comes in.

Those who are blasting Apple… the reason that this is of interest is because Apple are trying to fight back. Physical devices can be opened with ease now. But the cloud based encryption is more of a problem. Android and other ‘secure’ platforms have already folded.

Timothy Bucktu

16,140 posts

215 months

Friday 7th February
quotequote all
-Cappo- said:
Did I hear right that Apple have said they'll pull all cloud services from the UK if the Govt get this through? In that scenario, what happens to a UK user's iCloud data? (Photos etc).
Well, the cloud is great...as long as the sun isn't shining!
You'll be fine, because any truly precious photos you have will be stored in more than just one place...right?

Dingu

4,885 posts

45 months

Friday 7th February
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This is where Trumps America first tariff happy attitude could be useful.

Could easily prompt a threat of tariffs if the government don’t back down.

Gareth79

8,317 posts

261 months

Friday 7th February
quotequote all
-Cappo- said:
Did I hear right that Apple have said they'll pull all cloud services from the UK if the Govt get this through? In that scenario, what happens to a UK user's iCloud data? (Photos etc).
It's more than that, it's phone backups - settings, call records, installed apps, messages etc. All of that could be backed up to a local computer, but many people don't even have a computer these days, let alone being minded to back up regularly.

Essentially it's a threat they would carry out if necessary (because as mentioned a backdoor goes completely against Apple's ethos), but they know they won't need to, the government will back down.

-Cappo-

20,171 posts

218 months

Saturday 8th February
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Timothy Bucktu said:
-Cappo- said:
Did I hear right that Apple have said they'll pull all cloud services from the UK if the Govt get this through? In that scenario, what happens to a UK user's iCloud data? (Photos etc).
Well, the cloud is great...as long as the sun isn't shining!
You'll be fine, because any truly precious photos you have will be stored in more than just one place...right?
Of course - but Like, and make use of, the facility to sync and share across multiple devices. And per my original question - what happens to the data stored with Apple themselves if it's inaccessible to the user (to add/remove/delete etc)?

Leithen

13,017 posts

282 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
-Cappo- said:
Did I hear right that Apple have said they'll pull all cloud services from the UK if the Govt get this through? In that scenario, what happens to a UK user's iCloud data? (Photos etc).
Reports suggest that Apple would remove the end to end encryption option from the UK which is currently opt in, not default. They aren’t going to remove their cloud services.

swisstoni

19,856 posts

294 months

Saturday 8th February
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Another day, another batst out of nowhere idea emerges from the corridors of power.


steveatesh

5,163 posts

179 months

Saturday 8th February
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Wasn’t WhatsApp one of the target pieces of encrypted software when this legislation was first discussed?

bitchstewie

58,615 posts

225 months

Saturday 8th February
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It's a very difficult one isn't it?

What would you view be if (for example) the Police believed there was evidence on Rudukabana stored on iCloud and without it he might go free or with it he could be charged with terror offences?

I find myself genuinely conflicted by the obvious concerns about possible overreach but at the same time appreciating that if you store your stuff in a lock-up storage unit I don't think the storage company get to say "sorry officer, customer privacy, we can't let you in there".

NDA

23,169 posts

240 months

Saturday 8th February
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I would have thought a more targeted approach might have been better.

If someone is arrested, then access to their data could be granted in the same way that a search warrant is granted. Wouldn't this be better than requesting access to all mobile phones which is bound to cause security issues with people's bank data and everything else being accessible.

bitchstewie

58,615 posts

225 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
NDA said:
I would have thought a more targeted approach might have been better.

If someone is arrested, then access to their data could be granted in the same way that a search warrant is granted. Wouldn't this be better than requesting access to all mobile phones which is bound to cause security issues with people's bank data and everything else being accessible.
The BBC Article said:
It's also important to note that the government notice does not mean the authorities are suddenly going to start combing through everybody's data.

It is believed that the government would want to access this data if there were a risk to national security - in other words, it would be targeting an individual, rather than using it for mass surveillance.

Authorities would still have to follow a legal process, have a good reason and request permission for a specific account in order to access data - just as they do now with unencrypted data.
The issue is with technologies such as ADP even if all of that happens there is quite literally no way Apple or any provider can grant access.