Discussion
A sad day indeed and a situation that should never be allowed to develop again.
About 12 months ago I read a book "The Nazis Knew My Name" well worth the read
https://www.amazon.com.au/Nazis-Knew-Name-remarkab...
This movie is also worth a viewing
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914798/
About 12 months ago I read a book "The Nazis Knew My Name" well worth the read
https://www.amazon.com.au/Nazis-Knew-Name-remarkab...
This movie is also worth a viewing
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914798/
The scale of horror is just overwhelming.
I have seen a few holocaust films like Schindler's List, The Pianist, The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas, and The Zone Of Interest, and they leave me feeling very "off" for days afterwards.
I have never wanted to visit Auschwitz or any of the other remaining camps. I just cannot comprehend what I would see if I did go. I can sit and think about the infinite universe and our place in it but I just cannot process the stories that came out of those camps.
I have listened to some of the introductions from the R4 journalist who was reporting from Auschwitz this morning but by the time I arrived at my destination, I had to switch off and do something else.
I have seen a few holocaust films like Schindler's List, The Pianist, The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas, and The Zone Of Interest, and they leave me feeling very "off" for days afterwards.
I have never wanted to visit Auschwitz or any of the other remaining camps. I just cannot comprehend what I would see if I did go. I can sit and think about the infinite universe and our place in it but I just cannot process the stories that came out of those camps.
I have listened to some of the introductions from the R4 journalist who was reporting from Auschwitz this morning but by the time I arrived at my destination, I had to switch off and do something else.
Conflicted. I dislike intensely the "show" aspects of modern media coverage of such things. At the same time I get the point of publicising it to "sell" the story of it and promote the interest and knowledge into a society which is rapidly moving on from such a time when it was simply common knowledge and understanding of what happened in their lifetime.
In the 10yrs since, I think Ive mentioned my experience in Munich just a cpl of times. Only on here actually, Ive never spoken about it to my wife or family, Im not even sure Ive discussed it with close friends...its just not me. There is something touching on cathartic to discuss it a little sometimes with strangers. To experience Kristalnacht, even a highly watered down version is...well, Im still not sure tbh. I remember confusion most vividly and shortly after anger, but I remember it because my instant reaction was: but Im British, what has Jewish stuff got to do with me?! At least be pissed with me for being British!! One day Ill get round to opening up the trap door in my mind and looking properly at that night, but not yet. When the image in your head is one of you sat behind a door, tooled up and just...waiting, well, nothing good can come of looking too closely at that.
The Holocaust casts a long shadow.Those that endured it and came out the other side learned things about the soul of mankind that should never be known. That so many of them retained a perspective free of the blackness imposed upon them awes and humbles me.
In the 10yrs since, I think Ive mentioned my experience in Munich just a cpl of times. Only on here actually, Ive never spoken about it to my wife or family, Im not even sure Ive discussed it with close friends...its just not me. There is something touching on cathartic to discuss it a little sometimes with strangers. To experience Kristalnacht, even a highly watered down version is...well, Im still not sure tbh. I remember confusion most vividly and shortly after anger, but I remember it because my instant reaction was: but Im British, what has Jewish stuff got to do with me?! At least be pissed with me for being British!! One day Ill get round to opening up the trap door in my mind and looking properly at that night, but not yet. When the image in your head is one of you sat behind a door, tooled up and just...waiting, well, nothing good can come of looking too closely at that.
The Holocaust casts a long shadow.Those that endured it and came out the other side learned things about the soul of mankind that should never be known. That so many of them retained a perspective free of the blackness imposed upon them awes and humbles me.
I've visited camps in several countries. Every time it's been upsetting. The worst for me was Buchenwald, Everyone on my (German language) tour was crying and I had nightmares for a couple of nights. Why do I do it? To try and remind myself how quickly humanity can descend into brutality and that how easy it is to demonise a part of society.
I research my family history and I found that two of my aunts then aged 13 and 16 escaped from Duisberg to Amsterdam with their older brother. The brother, my cousin's father luckily was on the very last Kinder transport ship. Three days later the Nazis invaded the Netherlands and the girls were taken to Auschwitz. I found their documentation photos in a Dutch archive. Two little girls. More research showed the the parents had arrived there before the children.
The brother, under age, joined the British army and was part of the invasion where he was badly injured. He unsurprisingly suffered PTSD for the rest of his life.
I think that's enough writing for today.
I research my family history and I found that two of my aunts then aged 13 and 16 escaped from Duisberg to Amsterdam with their older brother. The brother, my cousin's father luckily was on the very last Kinder transport ship. Three days later the Nazis invaded the Netherlands and the girls were taken to Auschwitz. I found their documentation photos in a Dutch archive. Two little girls. More research showed the the parents had arrived there before the children.
The brother, under age, joined the British army and was part of the invasion where he was badly injured. He unsurprisingly suffered PTSD for the rest of his life.
I think that's enough writing for today.
Mars said:
The scale of horror is just overwhelming.
I have seen a few holocaust films like Schindler's List, The Pianist, The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas, and The Zone Of Interest, and they leave me feeling very "off" for days afterwards.
I have never wanted to visit Auschwitz or any of the other remaining camps. I just cannot comprehend what I would see if I did go. I can sit and think about the infinite universe and our place in it but I just cannot process the stories that came out of those camps.
I have listened to some of the introductions from the R4 journalist who was reporting from Auschwitz this morning but by the time I arrived at my destination, I had to switch off and do something else.
Both Auschwitz and Schindlers factory are worth a visit as a reminder. Both have been preserved and the history presented so that these atrocities will not be forgotten. Not that it appears any lessons have been learnt.I have seen a few holocaust films like Schindler's List, The Pianist, The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas, and The Zone Of Interest, and they leave me feeling very "off" for days afterwards.
I have never wanted to visit Auschwitz or any of the other remaining camps. I just cannot comprehend what I would see if I did go. I can sit and think about the infinite universe and our place in it but I just cannot process the stories that came out of those camps.
I have listened to some of the introductions from the R4 journalist who was reporting from Auschwitz this morning but by the time I arrived at my destination, I had to switch off and do something else.
We visited Auschwitz and schindlers work house and i can honestly say it changed the way we saw humanity and the world we live in, its something that should be on every school trip tbh.
The train tracks just ending, then the plaque message got to us the most, along with the piles of personal belongings, especially the prosthetic limbs.
We should never forget, yet i fear we are
The train tracks just ending, then the plaque message got to us the most, along with the piles of personal belongings, especially the prosthetic limbs.
We should never forget, yet i fear we are
I’ve been to a camp (Sachsenhausen), to Yad Veshem in Tel Aviv and museums in Germany too as well as watching numerous documentaries and films. It had a profound impact on my view of humanity. What depresses me more is to see how the Jews in Israel are following a similar path in demonising and hating all Palestinians and justifying ethnic cleansing, extraterritorial assassinations, killing of women and children and general mistreatment of Arabs.
It seems no lessons were learned and the cries of “never again” were false. Unsurprising really as similar levels of cruelty (if not on quite such a large scale) is the trademark of humans with rape, torture and slaughter our modus operandi.
It seems no lessons were learned and the cries of “never again” were false. Unsurprising really as similar levels of cruelty (if not on quite such a large scale) is the trademark of humans with rape, torture and slaughter our modus operandi.
Of all the coverage yesterday one piece that struck me was a report by Katie Adler on BBC news, when talking about the camp commander of Auschwitz. His house has just been opened to the public and is separated from the camp by a wall, he lived a normal family life there and then went to work.
She made the point that the Nazi soldiers and officers were just normal people, like everyone else but they were encouraged to hate and the hate started in their homes. I hadn’t realised so many other races and religions were persecuted, they hated anyone who they considered an alien, sad to say that I think I know a few people like that.
She made the point that the Nazi soldiers and officers were just normal people, like everyone else but they were encouraged to hate and the hate started in their homes. I hadn’t realised so many other races and religions were persecuted, they hated anyone who they considered an alien, sad to say that I think I know a few people like that.
What a bleak and terrible thread; yet absolutely completely necessary.
I heard an account of local civilians being compelled to visit camps after liberation, and being horrified at what had been done in their name and under their gaze. Completely normalised.
I really fear we, as a species, have not learned one jot judging from recent geo-political events. Sobering indeed
I heard an account of local civilians being compelled to visit camps after liberation, and being horrified at what had been done in their name and under their gaze. Completely normalised.
I really fear we, as a species, have not learned one jot judging from recent geo-political events. Sobering indeed
We went last month, took our daughter as she is currently studying WW2 in Yr 6.
We've been before, and knew what to expect. It was like going for the first time again, the scale and horrific acts that went on are hard to comprehend.
I hope more people visit, what happened should never be forgotten.
We've been before, and knew what to expect. It was like going for the first time again, the scale and horrific acts that went on are hard to comprehend.
I hope more people visit, what happened should never be forgotten.
I was on a kibbutz in Israel late 80s. I visited Yad Vashem. There were many Shoah survivors still alive back then - it was quite sobering seeing people with numbers tattooed on their arms.
I met one old lady who seemed not quite right - I only found out later she was one of Dr Mengelie's victims.....
I read the Rise & Fall of the third Reich: highly recommended, but deeply disturbing.
I met one old lady who seemed not quite right - I only found out later she was one of Dr Mengelie's victims.....
I read the Rise & Fall of the third Reich: highly recommended, but deeply disturbing.
Biker 1 said:
I was on a kibbutz in Israel late 80s. I visited Yad Vashem. There were many Shoah survivors still alive back then - it was quite sobering seeing people with numbers tattooed on their arms.
I met one old lady who seemed not quite right - I only found out later she was one of Dr Mengelie's victims.....
I read the Rise & Fall of the third Reich: highly recommended, but deeply disturbing.
The last owner of my house was at Auschwitz. From speaking to people in the area they said she suffering with her mental health. I met one old lady who seemed not quite right - I only found out later she was one of Dr Mengelie's victims.....
I read the Rise & Fall of the third Reich: highly recommended, but deeply disturbing.
I went there in October and I slept for a few hours in the late afternoon when I got back to the hotel.
Blue62 said:
A little surprised there’s seemingly no thread on here given the significance today. Surely there’s much to discuss and reflect on and given the current shift in global politics, let alone some of the harrowing stories from today’s coverage.
Must admit I thought the same and I even got so far as about to hit submit but then found myself looking at it and reflecting on what on earth can you actually say.It's beyond comprehension.
I think this says a lot.
We went to Auschwitz-Birkenau last year. Very sobering and levelling experience. We may moan about things in our everyday modern lives...but my god they're wholly insignificant in comparison to the horrors that went on there.
If you're the sort of person who moans they're 'depressed'...you might find a trip there cures you!
ETA...our tour guide was a very knowledgeable and passionate lady as are all the people who work there. But be warned...if you think its acceptable to start laughing or larking around, they will come down on you like a ton of bricks! There was a couple of girls being silly in another group, and boy...I don't think they'll forget the telling off they got.
Have we really learnt anything since then...no, not really. I think it could very easily happen again. Just think back to the Covid years for a snapshot of how easily people are manipulated. The hate for so called 'anti-vaxxers', how people looked at you and ran to the hills if you weren't wearing a mask, putting people into Covid quarantine camps...it was small scale in comparison, but the mindset of those involved was the same.
If you're the sort of person who moans they're 'depressed'...you might find a trip there cures you!
ETA...our tour guide was a very knowledgeable and passionate lady as are all the people who work there. But be warned...if you think its acceptable to start laughing or larking around, they will come down on you like a ton of bricks! There was a couple of girls being silly in another group, and boy...I don't think they'll forget the telling off they got.
Have we really learnt anything since then...no, not really. I think it could very easily happen again. Just think back to the Covid years for a snapshot of how easily people are manipulated. The hate for so called 'anti-vaxxers', how people looked at you and ran to the hills if you weren't wearing a mask, putting people into Covid quarantine camps...it was small scale in comparison, but the mindset of those involved was the same.
Edited by Timothy Bucktu on Tuesday 28th January 08:11
Skeptisk said:
What depresses me more is to see how the Jews in Israel are following a similar path in demonising and hating all Palestinians and justifying ethnic cleansing, extraterritorial assassinations, killing of women and children and general mistreatment of Arabs.
+1While the Holocaust was horrible and should never be repeated,
it's always worthwhile asking any Israeli citizen how many
tens of thousands of innocent folks have been killed in Gaza in the
last year or two.
Seemingly the Jews have a holy book that says a lot of land
in the area is theirs, but a lot of very touchy local tribes disagree.
They have been fighting amongst themselves for about a century
or so.
I also think it's a very good idea that the local concentration camp
is a standard school trip for German teenagers.
Skeptisk said:
It seems no lessons were learned and the cries of “never again” were false. Unsurprising really as similar levels of cruelty (if not on quite such a large scale) is the trademark of humans with rape, torture and slaughter our modus operandi.
20+ million Soviet dead in WW2. I don't know how many deadin Chinese history over the last 200 years.
Never any shortage of misery.
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