Cancelled Student commits suicide

[cossy400]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14060637/...

Am i being out of touch in thinking that this girl and his pals should be held accountable for this? ?

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

[chrisgtx]

Very sad, although nothing surprises me these days when it comes to university’s, their students and their behaviour.
I thinks it’s almost impossible to root out the cause, social media, dating apps, lack of social mixing in real life, idealistic expectations, people being absolute melts, etc etc.

[Randy Winkman]

It's really, really sad. I'm just not sure there's anything "these days" about it. Isn't it just the difficult way the world has always worked? People, especially young people are full of angst and sometimes, friendships and relationships go wrong. But as I said, really sad.

[Type R Tom]

We don't know what happened, but in his own words, his "actions and a belief that they were unintentional but unforgivable" could be something I might end up distancing myself from a mate for

[TwigtheWonderkid]

cossy400 said:

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

I'm not sure it's even a thing in show business. Most of the people in show business who claim to have been cancelled are never off the TV telling us about it.

This is a very sad story but some young people have always run into trouble over relationships, and suicide in such circumstances has always happened in a few tragic cases.

Has anyone done anything wrong here? Girl has sex with guy and whatever went down (and we don't know) she was uncomfortable with. She has a right to feel that way and a right to tell others in the friendship group. They have a right to be concerned about what they have heard.

Put the boot on the other foot. Suppose you were this girl's dad, she'd told you what went on, and you to weren't happy about what she said had happened during the encounter.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

cossy400 said:

Am i being out of touch in thinking that this girl and his pals should be held accountable for this? ?

And if the girl or one of the pals killed themselves due to being investigated, who would be accountable for that. The police, the Daily Mail, ......you?

[Randy Winkman]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cossy400 said:

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

I'm not sure it's even a thing in show business. Most of the people in show business who claim to have been cancelled are never off the TV telling us about it.

This is a very sad story but some young people have always run into trouble over relationships, and suicide in such circumstances has always happened in a few tragic cases.

Has anyone done anything wrong here? Girl has sex with guy and whatever went down (and we don't know) she was uncomfortable with. She has a right to feel that way and a right to tell others in the friendship group. They have a right to be concerned about what they have heard.

Put the boot on the other foot. Suppose you were this girl's dad, she'd told you what went on, and you to weren't happy about what she said had happened during the encounter.

Exactly - shame on the Daily Mail for writing a story about it and going on about "cancelled". A poor young fella killed himself and that's their response.

Edited by Randy Winkman on Saturday 9th November 19:55

[BikeBikeBIke]

Randy Winkman said:

I'm just not sure there's anything "these days" about it. Isn't it just the difficult way the world has always worked? People, especially young people are full of angst and sometimes, friendships and relationships go wrong.

That's exactly my take.

[Blakewater]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cossy400 said:

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

I'm not sure it's even a thing in show business. Most of the people in show business who claim to have been cancelled are never off the TV telling us about it.

This is a very sad story but some young people have always run into trouble over relationships, and suicide in such circumstances has always happened in a few tragic cases.

Has anyone done anything wrong here? Girl has sex with guy and whatever went down (and we don't know) she was uncomfortable with. She has a right to feel that way and a right to tell others in the friendship group. They have a right to be concerned about what they have heard.

Put the boot on the other foot. Suppose you were this girl's dad, she'd told you what went on, and you to weren't happy about what she said had happened during the encounter.

Presumably the coroner is in possession of more information than we are and he's the one who's said a culture of social ostracism has played a part in this suicide. It's not the Daily Mail saying it. We see cancel culture in social media where people are always looking for sanctimonious reasons to tear someone down and will leap to a judgement against someone based on an accusation with no chance for the accused to defend themselves. It's a form of bullying where the bullies end up being seen to have the moral highground.

[Randy Winkman]

Blakewater said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cossy400 said:

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

I'm not sure it's even a thing in show business. Most of the people in show business who claim to have been cancelled are never off the TV telling us about it.

This is a very sad story but some young people have always run into trouble over relationships, and suicide in such circumstances has always happened in a few tragic cases.

Has anyone done anything wrong here? Girl has sex with guy and whatever went down (and we don't know) she was uncomfortable with. She has a right to feel that way and a right to tell others in the friendship group. They have a right to be concerned about what they have heard.

Put the boot on the other foot. Suppose you were this girl's dad, she'd told you what went on, and you to weren't happy about what she said had happened during the encounter.

Presumably the coroner is in possession of more information than we are and he's the one who's said a culture of social ostracism has played a part in this suicide. It's not the Daily Mail saying it. We see cancel culture in social media where people are always looking for sanctimonious reasons to tear someone down and will leap to a judgement against someone based on an accusation with no chance for the accused to defend themselves. It's a form of bullying where the bullies end up being seen to have the moral highground.

That's true. But my problem is that The Daily Mail presents it as a new thing and uses the word "cancelled". Hasn't that always happened?

Imagine how judgemental people were about sex, sexuality and pregnancy 50+ years ago.

[Murph7355]

Blakewater said:

Presumably the coroner is in possession of more information than we are and he's the one who's said a culture of social ostracism has played a part in this suicide. It's not the Daily Mail saying it. We see cancel culture in social media where people are always looking for sanctimonious reasons to tear someone down and will leap to a judgement against someone based on an accusation with no chance for the accused to defend themselves. It's a form of bullying where the bullies end up being seen to have the moral highground.

Have relationships and friend circles not always been this way? Or at least some friend circles....

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Blakewater said:

We see cancel culture in social media where people are always looking for sanctimonious reasons to tear someone down and will leap to a judgement against someone based on an accusation with no chance for the accused to defend themselves. It's a form of bullying where the bullies end up being seen to have the moral highground.

In my experience, most cases of so called cancel culture are in fact consequence culture. Look at the storm over Jeremy Clarkson and his frankly disgusting comments on Meghan Markle. Lot's of people were whinging about cancel culture then, when it looked like it would cost JC his Who Wants To Be a Millionaire gig.

If I'd stood up at work and said the exact same thing about a young female colleague I disliked, I'd have been sacked on the spot. Gross misconduct. That's not cancel culture, that's me suffering the consequences of my vile tirade.

[dandarez]

Randy Winkman said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cossy400 said:

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

I'm not sure it's even a thing in show business. Most of the people in show business who claim to have been cancelled are never off the TV telling us about it.

This is a very sad story but some young people have always run into trouble over relationships, and suicide in such circumstances has always happened in a few tragic cases.

Has anyone done anything wrong here? Girl has sex with guy and whatever went down (and we don't know) she was uncomfortable with. She has a right to feel that way and a right to tell others in the friendship group. They have a right to be concerned about what they have heard.

Put the boot on the other foot. Suppose you were this girl's dad, she'd told you what went on, and you to weren't happy about what she said had happened during the encounter.

Exactly - shame on the Daily Mail for writing a story about it and going on about "cancelled". A poor young fella killed himself and that's their response.

Edited by Randy Winkman on Saturday 9th November 19:55

Perhaps open your eyes beyond the Wail - the 'cancel' culture part was headlines in the Metro, Telegraph and other news media 2 days ago, and featured heavily in the local rag here (Oxford Mail - with the word 'Cancelled'). The only thing wrong was the Wail putting the word 'exclusive' in their text.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24705645.inquest...

Edited by dandarez on Saturday 9th November 23:48

[OzzyR1]

Type R Tom said:

We don't know what happened, but in his own words, his "actions and a belief that they were unintentional but unforgivable" could be something I might end up distancing myself from a mate for

That caught my eye too.

I would guess there's more to it: probably a lot of drink involved, he and a girl went back to a room, at some point she tried to call a halt but it ended up in intercourse.

His own description of his behaviour as "unintentional" is acknowledgment of wrong-doing & out of character, likely due to booze, but sufficiently serious for him to deem it unforgivable.

Not going to use the "r" word, but whatever happened was enough to make her confide in mutual friends, them to take her side, him to classify his actions as so appalling that he could only see one way out.

Edited by OzzyR1 on Sunday 10th November 01:55

[rodericb]

Type R Tom said:

We don't know what happened, but in his own words, his "actions and a belief that they were unintentional but unforgivable" could be something I might end up distancing myself from a mate for

Has sex with another student, she regrets it later to her friends (for reasons we don't know). Going by what the coroner said it seems yes actually means no now.

maybe universities or even the government needs to record consent for such things? A phone app?

[Ridgemont]

OzzyR1 said:

Type R Tom said:

We don't know what happened, but in his own words, his "actions and a belief that they were unintentional but unforgivable" could be something I might end up distancing myself from a mate for

That caught my eye too.

I would guess there's more to it: probably a lot of drink involved, he and a girl went back to a room, at some point she tried to call a halt but it ended up in intercourse.

His own description of his behaviour as "unintentional" is acknowledgment of wrong-doing & out of character, likely due to booze, but sufficiently serious for him to deem it unforgivable.

Not going to use the "r" word, but whatever happened was enough to make her confide in mutual friends, them to take her side, him to classify his actions as so appalling that he could only see one way out.

Edited by OzzyR1 on Sunday 10th November 01:55

A young friend at University was recently raped (no R word) by a guy she ended up with at the end of a night of partying.

We are trying to sort out counselling and st to ensure she is able to move forward as there is likely to be dick all in the way of actual recrimination as she didn’t go to the police and the university has been singularly unhelpful in the circumstances.

His mates, aware of the situation, have ‘cancelled him’ to the extent that as in previous decades he has shown himself to be an absolute .

He tried to apologise even using the ‘unforgivable’ crap. But in a bygones tone.
Utterly pathetic.

If he ends up topping himself because of that frankly I have no problem with that because of the damage he has done to a wonderful young woman. fks given? None.

Clear the word cancel out of the way.

Edited by Ridgemont on Sunday 10th November 02:39

[rodericb]

OzzyR1 said:

Type R Tom said:

We don't know what happened, but in his own words, his "actions and a belief that they were unintentional but unforgivable" could be something I might end up distancing myself from a mate for

That caught my eye too.

I would guess there's more to it: probably a lot of drink involved, he and a girl went back to a room, at some point she tried to call a halt but it ended up in intercourse.

His own description of his behaviour as "unintentional" is acknowledgment of wrong-doing & out of character, likely due to booze, but sufficiently serious for him to deem it unforgivable.

Not going to use the "r" word, but whatever happened was enough to make her confide in mutual friends, them to take her side, him to classify his actions as so appalling that he could only see one way out.

Edited by OzzyR1 on Sunday 10th November 01:55

You're reading a lot into it. Would the coroner have written what they did if the circumstances were what you have projected?

[BikeBikeBIke]

rodericb said:

You're reading a lot into it. Would the coroner have written what they did if the circumstances were what you have projected?

Exactly this.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Sunday 10th November 07:15

[Alex Z]

cossy400 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14060637/...

Am i being out of touch in thinking that this girl and his pals should be held accountable for this? ?

I didnt even know this cancelled business was a thing outside of show business i suppose, what a strange world we are in now.

Accountable for what? If someone has behaved poorly but not illegally, then having a grown up conversation with them and saying that you don’t want to socialise with them any more (or for a while) is entirely fair and reasonable. I don’t believe they could have forseen this outcome, and certainly aren’t obliged to stay friends.

They’ve certainly done nothing illegal or immoral, and calling this Cancel Culture is just the DM trying to attract attention and court controversy as usual. I expect that his former friends feel awful about the outcome.

Edited by Alex Z on Sunday 10th November 07:15

[BikeBikeBIke]

Alex Z said:

Accountable for what? If someone has behaved poorly but not illegally, then having a grown up conversation with them and saying that you don’t want to socialise with them any more (or for a while) is entirely fair and reasonable. I don’t believe they could have forseen this outcome, and certainly aren’t obliged to stay friends.

I suspect the Coroner thought this was simply bullying rather than a group of people reasonably not wanting to to be mates with someone any more. As you say, the latter would be completely normal.