Commonwealth Leaders and Slavery Reparations
Discussion
IJWS15 said:
I wonder if they will be looking for reparations from the Africans who sold the slaves in the first place?
That is, IMO, precisely the point. I have no time for any of these attempts to go back and rewrite or rectify history. You can't move forwards if you're always looking backwards.Panamax said:
That is, IMO, precisely the point. I have no time for any of these attempts to go back and rewrite or rectify history. You can't move forwards if you're always looking backwards.
History is a best guess. It is always being rewritten. It moves forwards.The slave trade was just that, a trade. The ships bought slaves in Africa from Africans. They didn't go out hunting. They did not directly enslave people, although, to my mind, were equally culpable. One factor that is seemingly ignored is that the demand for slaves, for merchandise in fact, meant that many inland parts of sub-Saharan Africa were denuded of men. They were rounded up, and taken to the ports.
Slavery was universal. The difference with the UK is that it was turned into a business, one in which some Africans participated. The numbers are shocking. However, the difference is not one of kind for the UK. There's no doubt slavery exists in this country now. Many people do what they did at the height of the slave trade, turn away and put their fingers in their ears.
Not going back far enough, need to go back to Viking era when the British were slaves.
https://www.history.com/news/viking-slavery-raids-...
"DNA mapping of the modern Icelandic population found that up to two-thirds of Iceland’s female founding population had Gaelic origins (either Ireland or Scotland) while only one-third had Nordic roots. The reverse was true for the male population, suggesting that many Nordic men in Iceland had children with women who were likely taken in raids from the British Isles."
TX.
https://www.history.com/news/viking-slavery-raids-...
"DNA mapping of the modern Icelandic population found that up to two-thirds of Iceland’s female founding population had Gaelic origins (either Ireland or Scotland) while only one-third had Nordic roots. The reverse was true for the male population, suggesting that many Nordic men in Iceland had children with women who were likely taken in raids from the British Isles."
TX.
What about compensation for cultural imperialism? For example the Welsh continued with their hunter-gathering for a thousand years while the rest of the tarts in Europe were mincing around with their so-called "farming". But eventually that filthy practice was infiltrated into our lands and we've been forced to live in so called "houses" with a steady supply of food ever since. Now I've only been living in Wales for 10 years but I've still been oppressed culturally by those Late Neolithic b
ds and I deserve compo. Don't get me started on those freaks and their la di dah so-called "beakers".
ds and I deserve compo. Don't get me started on those freaks and their la di dah so-called "beakers".Money from who, not me. My ancestors were dirt poor, they didn't take part in the slave trade, what these people fail to understand when they have their hand out on the off chance of free money from some left wing bellend is that most of us were in the same boat, it wasn't all milk and honey 200 years ago in the UK if you weren't upper class. Most people were living in some kind of legal slavery, be it the work house or another type of indentured servitude, hell if you were not one of the 1% someone else owned you in one way or another.
Then we have us spending so much money putting an end to the slave trade we as a nation only paid it back in 2015, not to mention almost 20,000 sailors that died enforcing it, the west Africa squadron freed almost 200000 slaves and had many battles with the Spanish enforcing the
British imposed ban.
So no we should not pay them, basket case economies trying to pull money out of someone else's ass to prop up corrupt regimes from people that weren't there and had nothing to do with it.
Our "debt" was already settled.
Then we have us spending so much money putting an end to the slave trade we as a nation only paid it back in 2015, not to mention almost 20,000 sailors that died enforcing it, the west Africa squadron freed almost 200000 slaves and had many battles with the Spanish enforcing the
British imposed ban.
So no we should not pay them, basket case economies trying to pull money out of someone else's ass to prop up corrupt regimes from people that weren't there and had nothing to do with it.
Our "debt" was already settled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn01ljdl07xo
BBC Article said:
A report published last year by the University of West Indies - backed by Patrick Robinson, a judge who sits on the International Court of Justice - concluded the UK owed more than £18tn in reparations for its role in slavery in 14 Caribbean countries.
£18tn - dig deep now.This will go one way, and probably for some on here it will be great news.
The UK will not pay a dime (though they may officially apologise but that would be a mistake if it focuses on the UK alone and despite the comment above, slave trade was a business concern for markets in not least in the U.S., Egypt and Turkey at the very least). Slave shaming one nation is pathetic and juvenile.
So therefore the outcome will be that a number of especially Caribbean statelets will march out of the commonwealth and/or cosy up to China.
Frankly I’m okay with that as an end state to stop the perpetual grafting from some pretty unsavoury regimes but that is the consequences of their idiotic approach to this. I’m not sure they will enjoy the munificence of their new Chinese overlords but if that is their decision then that is that. They are not hostages and the FO has always approached the question of the commonwealth even-handedly by assuming it’s a question of soft power and influence.
That soft power and influence won’t come with a £18trn price tag. They will whistle for it.
The US may find it has an almighty headache on its southern shores if the Chinese do their usual thing but that will be for the US to sort out.
As to why this is kicking off now: well that would be because SKS saw fit to appoint an absolute balloon of a buffoon to the role of Foreign Secretary who has spouted off on this crap multiple times before and not in the UK’s favour. Utterly self inflicted as per effing usual with this clown show.
Maybe time the commonwealth got slimmed down. Voluntarily.
I will be sad about that but there is no point being continually panhandled by regimes that can’t manage their own living inhabitants never minding what happened 300 years ago.
The UK will not pay a dime (though they may officially apologise but that would be a mistake if it focuses on the UK alone and despite the comment above, slave trade was a business concern for markets in not least in the U.S., Egypt and Turkey at the very least). Slave shaming one nation is pathetic and juvenile.
So therefore the outcome will be that a number of especially Caribbean statelets will march out of the commonwealth and/or cosy up to China.
Frankly I’m okay with that as an end state to stop the perpetual grafting from some pretty unsavoury regimes but that is the consequences of their idiotic approach to this. I’m not sure they will enjoy the munificence of their new Chinese overlords but if that is their decision then that is that. They are not hostages and the FO has always approached the question of the commonwealth even-handedly by assuming it’s a question of soft power and influence.
That soft power and influence won’t come with a £18trn price tag. They will whistle for it.
The US may find it has an almighty headache on its southern shores if the Chinese do their usual thing but that will be for the US to sort out.
As to why this is kicking off now: well that would be because SKS saw fit to appoint an absolute balloon of a buffoon to the role of Foreign Secretary who has spouted off on this crap multiple times before and not in the UK’s favour. Utterly self inflicted as per effing usual with this clown show.
Maybe time the commonwealth got slimmed down. Voluntarily.
I will be sad about that but there is no point being continually panhandled by regimes that can’t manage their own living inhabitants never minding what happened 300 years ago.
What gets me is what do they want the money for? If you're still pissed off about your 10x grandparent we can take you back, no? didn't think so.
It's absurd people wanting money for people they've never met and never suffered the abuses they are claiming for from people that never did it.
It's absurd people wanting money for people they've never met and never suffered the abuses they are claiming for from people that never did it.
OutInTheShed said:
A lot of racism going on.
Your race owes my race lots of money!
Some more immediately than others. India would find the conversation difficult but hypocrisy has never been a problem with their governments.Your race owes my race lots of money!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21s...
J210 said:
Slavery is still common in Africa and Middle Easten countries maybe we could sort that out first ?
This is specifically a grift from some crappy islands in the Caribbean: they don’t give a scoobie about what happens in Africa.Personally I suggest we contact the Rwandan gov and see if they are open to repatriating several million Caribbean inhabitants by way of recompense. “Sorry my 10x grandfather *didn’t* slave trade you but we’ll drop you back where you came from?”
I’m sure it would be well received.
Can someone put forward a pretty compelling argument that a lot of countries are still suffering damage as a result of our benevolent colonialism? Sure. Is it equally clear that handing over flipping great wodges of cash would undo that damage? Er, no. Is it equally obvious that it's fair to place a responsibility on the great grandchildren of the last lot of people who actually did any colonialism? Er, no.
We need to find a tactical way of moving on from this discussion.
We need to find a tactical way of moving on from this discussion.
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