Work to Rule - GPs
Discussion
Do you regularly work outside of your contracted hours? If so, why?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36149wkn5jo
Whilst I think GP's do get paid well, and surgeries tend to be oversubscribed, "working to rule" and only working their contracted hours should be a right they have, and it shouldn't be vilified by the government. If NHS GP surgeries can only function if doctors work more than they are contracted to, and they see more patients than is safe, then why is that the GP's fault if they don't want to do that anymore?
If that happened at my work place, I wouldn't stand for it. Would you?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36149wkn5jo
Whilst I think GP's do get paid well, and surgeries tend to be oversubscribed, "working to rule" and only working their contracted hours should be a right they have, and it shouldn't be vilified by the government. If NHS GP surgeries can only function if doctors work more than they are contracted to, and they see more patients than is safe, then why is that the GP's fault if they don't want to do that anymore?
If that happened at my work place, I wouldn't stand for it. Would you?
OutInTheShed said:
How do they have the power to enact such protectionism? John145 said:
OutInTheShed said:
How do they have the power to enact such protectionism? Read in the context of today's world, it reads as being blatant protectionism.
There are still limits today though, on the number of applicants that can be accepted onto medical courses. While there is a need for more doctors (and similar), is there funding at the end for the jobs that are needed?!
Doctors training 16 years ago would be in mid career now.
So where we are now is only having something like 1 GP per 2000 people.
Large numbers of GPs are only working part time.
Many are retiring early or moving to other jobs.
We import some from poorer countries, I think that's ethically dubious.
The need to train more doctors has been blatant for a very long time.
I expect the peole resisting all have BUPA though.
So where we are now is only having something like 1 GP per 2000 people.
Large numbers of GPs are only working part time.
Many are retiring early or moving to other jobs.
We import some from poorer countries, I think that's ethically dubious.
The need to train more doctors has been blatant for a very long time.
I expect the peole resisting all have BUPA though.
My personal situation finds me without a GP, I have to visit A&E for medical attention. For example
I phoned to make an appointment with a GP, triage by receptionist as usual advising of my health condition Severe ongoing chest infection + post cancer treatment side effects causing secondary issues. Apparently that is not urgent and I can see a doctor in three weeks, or a telephone consultation in ten days.
Seems to me that only rigour mortis will see a GP jump into action
Complete system is pooped.
I phoned to make an appointment with a GP, triage by receptionist as usual advising of my health condition Severe ongoing chest infection + post cancer treatment side effects causing secondary issues. Apparently that is not urgent and I can see a doctor in three weeks, or a telephone consultation in ten days.
Seems to me that only rigour mortis will see a GP jump into action
Complete system is pooped.
The whole health service is utterly f*cked, this really isn’t “news”.
The NHS and all of its various arms resemble a Jumbo jet carrying about three times as many passengers as it was designed for, held together with gaffer tape and steadily losing altitude. Eventually it will crash, successive governments just tweak a few things and spend five years hoping it doesn’t happen during this parliament. If they win another term next time around just start the whole process again.
Needs massive, massive change.
The NHS and all of its various arms resemble a Jumbo jet carrying about three times as many passengers as it was designed for, held together with gaffer tape and steadily losing altitude. Eventually it will crash, successive governments just tweak a few things and spend five years hoping it doesn’t happen during this parliament. If they win another term next time around just start the whole process again.
Needs massive, massive change.
996owner said:
I suspect the businesses which are 'GP practices' don't want to employ more GPs because they make more money having lots of patients on their books which they can't service?Government and NHS manangement has completely failed here.
Instead of talking about 'privatising the NHS' maybe it's time to nationalise it properly?
Or maybe those GPs who can't find job simply need to set up new practices?
Possibly even privately?
Or maybe some of these 'fully qualified GPs' are in fact not employable?
I have met 'fully qualified engineers' who I would not employ.
crankedup5 said:
My personal situation finds me without a GP, I have to visit A&E for medical attention. For example
I phoned to make an appointment with a GP, triage by receptionist as usual advising of my health condition Severe ongoing chest infection + post cancer treatment side effects causing secondary issues. Apparently that is not urgent and I can see a doctor in three weeks, or a telephone consultation in ten days.
Seems to me that only rigour mortis will see a GP jump into action
Complete system is pooped.
That is a completely unacceptable situation, it must be down to population density, do you live in a city?I phoned to make an appointment with a GP, triage by receptionist as usual advising of my health condition Severe ongoing chest infection + post cancer treatment side effects causing secondary issues. Apparently that is not urgent and I can see a doctor in three weeks, or a telephone consultation in ten days.
Seems to me that only rigour mortis will see a GP jump into action
Complete system is pooped.
I know that a rural practice that I use I can see a doctor same day if needed, ok I might need to drive 13 miles to one of the 3 surgeries in the practice but at least I can be seen.
OutInTheShed said:
Sway said:
I didn't think many GPs were employed by the NHS?
AIUI, most are not.Hence my comment, time they were nationalised perhaps?
Or perhaps we should just give up and go private, as we do with dentists?
My point was perhaps more subtle - how can they 'work to rule' and hold the government to fix it, when they're either private business owners or employees of those businesses?
Sway said:
Agreed. Even Bevan didn't want that fight.
My point was perhaps more subtle - how can they 'work to rule' and hold the government to fix it, when they're either private business owners or employees of those businesses?
My limited understanding is that gov't signed a contract by which they purchase GP services from GPs and 'practices'.My point was perhaps more subtle - how can they 'work to rule' and hold the government to fix it, when they're either private business owners or employees of those businesses?
This contract implies a minimum amount of 'work' from each GP,
GPs do more than that minimum.
Just because the gov't or NHS don't directly employ the GPs, they still pick up the bill and have a lot of control over the services they purchase.
It's an interesting IR35 position, are they 'disguised employees' of the guvmint?
GR86oldboy said:
crankedup5 said:
My personal situation finds me without a GP, I have to visit A&E for medical attention. For example
I phoned to make an appointment with a GP, triage by receptionist as usual advising of my health condition Severe ongoing chest infection + post cancer treatment side effects causing secondary issues. Apparently that is not urgent and I can see a doctor in three weeks, or a telephone consultation in ten days.
Seems to me that only rigour mortis will see a GP jump into action
Complete system is pooped.
That is a completely unacceptable situation, it must be down to population density, do you live in a city?I phoned to make an appointment with a GP, triage by receptionist as usual advising of my health condition Severe ongoing chest infection + post cancer treatment side effects causing secondary issues. Apparently that is not urgent and I can see a doctor in three weeks, or a telephone consultation in ten days.
Seems to me that only rigour mortis will see a GP jump into action
Complete system is pooped.
I know that a rural practice that I use I can see a doctor same day if needed, ok I might need to drive 13 miles to one of the 3 surgeries in the practice but at least I can be seen.
Hundreds more houses are now being built in the town with no additions to the support services.
Absolutely terrible situation.
It's all a bit crazy, and ripe for some centralised improvement in operating models (pun unintended!).
A great example of why there's so much potential for improvement is my local GP. Listed in the top 20 'worst' practices for Patient:GP ratios, yet staggeringly efficient and zero drama getting appointments. Also an area with an aging population.
They're very hot on econsults prior to appointment. Very simple flow of phone appointment, nurse practitioner or GP depending on need. Never not had contact/appointment within three days, and that's a single example otherwise it's always been same day.
A great example of why there's so much potential for improvement is my local GP. Listed in the top 20 'worst' practices for Patient:GP ratios, yet staggeringly efficient and zero drama getting appointments. Also an area with an aging population.
They're very hot on econsults prior to appointment. Very simple flow of phone appointment, nurse practitioner or GP depending on need. Never not had contact/appointment within three days, and that's a single example otherwise it's always been same day.
Sway said:
It's all a bit crazy, and ripe for some centralised improvement in operating models (pun unintended!).
A great example of why there's so much potential for improvement is my local GP. Listed in the top 20 'worst' practices for Patient:GP ratios, yet staggeringly efficient and zero drama getting appointments. Also an area with an aging population.
They're very hot on econsults prior to appointment. Very simple flow of phone appointment, nurse practitioner or GP depending on need. Never not had contact/appointment within three days, and that's a single example otherwise it's always been same day.
I can only look upon your doctor services with envy and my wishful thinking. Irony for me being wife A great example of why there's so much potential for improvement is my local GP. Listed in the top 20 'worst' practices for Patient:GP ratios, yet staggeringly efficient and zero drama getting appointments. Also an area with an aging population.
They're very hot on econsults prior to appointment. Very simple flow of phone appointment, nurse practitioner or GP depending on need. Never not had contact/appointment within three days, and that's a single example otherwise it's always been same day.
and family convinced me to move from my rural retreat, which was great,Move into town . Doctors, dentists hospital all on doorstop and Im getting older I was advised. All that was OK until covid, now it’s all a disaster with service levels on the floor.
wish I had stayed in the countryside looking after my chickens 
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff