UK 20th least corrupt country?
Discussion
A former minister in Singapore has been arrested for accepting illegal gifts, the value being a fraction of what Starmer accepted. Singapore is listed as the 5th least perceived corrupt country n the world, the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
lornemalvo said:
the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Just imagine how corrupt other countries are instead.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
FourWheelDrift said:
lornemalvo said:
the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Just imagine how corrupt other countries are instead.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
FourWheelDrift said:
lornemalvo said:
the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Just imagine how corrupt other countries are instead.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
ChocolateFrog said:
FourWheelDrift said:
lornemalvo said:
the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Just imagine how corrupt other countries are instead.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
lornemalvo said:
A former minister in Singapore has been arrested for accepting illegal gifts, the value being a fraction of what Starmer accepted. Singapore is listed as the 5th least perceived corrupt country n the world, the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
What's perceived got to do with owt!?https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
lornemalvo said:
A former minister in Singapore has been arrested for accepting illegal gifts, the value being a fraction of what Starmer accepted. Singapore is listed as the 5th least perceived corrupt country n the world, the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Thems the 2023 figures.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Keir says hold my (complimentary) beer.
Eric Mc said:
Amazingly, Germany often comes high in these fraud/corruption tables.
So, it's not unique to Africa/Asia/South America.
Germany was the subject of one of the most famous government corruption cases in history - the one that led to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) in the USA.So, it's not unique to Africa/Asia/South America.
When the Lufwaffe were re-arming in the late 1950s a number of companies (including British ones) were tendering to supply fighter jets. Lockheed had realised that for various reasons (not least safety) their F104 Starfighter was not going to be as successful in the US as they had thought. A massive bribery campaign (that only eventually came to light in the 1970s) involving German politicians, made the aircraft much more commercially successful than it probably should have been (and killed many German pilots).
I work a lot in developing nations where corruption is a blight to development.
In my view, corruption is the cancer of the world. Eradicate it and you solve every single major problem there is up to and including terrorism.
But it's a hugely complex issue and not always as simple as 'brown envelopes for trade or favours'. In fact, that is rarely the case. In many countries, it's used as a means of economic levelling up. In nations like Albania where the economy is maturing and growing, the average salary is around €400 - €500 a month. (Binmen earn around €150 - €200 a month). Yet the cost of living is not so removed from the UK - probably around 15% less and when you go to a major town or city there, you could easily be in London, Paris, etc. The black economy draws cash from private sector providers to the public sector and trickles that money down through various channels to the masses. It's the only way they can survive.
This creates a vicious circle. For the country to develop, it needs to raise tax revenue. But you can only raise tax revenue on money you know about. And when most of the civil service themselves benefit from a corrupt, black economy, the resolve to do something about this is not exactly strong. That leads to a breeding ground for crime and all that goes with it.
I've used Albania as an example but could list at least 20 nations like this.
Africa is on another level. Corruption in many places there isn't even kept quiet. I went to Sierra Leone a few years back. At the airport, a colleague and I were walking to the bus that takes you to the ferry to Freetown. A police officer offered to help us with the bags. Nice touch you might think. At the bus, he refused to let us take the bags unless we gave him $20.
Is the UK corrupt?
Absolutely not.
That does not mean corruption doesn't happen but the difference here is that it's a) very hard to corrupt anyone in public service, and b) if you do, highly likely that you (and they) will be called out on it. We have a level of scrutiny and transparency to exceptionally high levels. The closest we get is lobbying - "reduce taxes for my sector or I'll move my factory somewhere else" type things.
All of my clients are public sector. I was once hauled over the coals for bringing a tin of chocolate biscuits to a project wrap-up meeting. I cannot buy my clients a Costa without having to sign some form or another.
(They still had all the biscuits, though!!)
In my view, corruption is the cancer of the world. Eradicate it and you solve every single major problem there is up to and including terrorism.
But it's a hugely complex issue and not always as simple as 'brown envelopes for trade or favours'. In fact, that is rarely the case. In many countries, it's used as a means of economic levelling up. In nations like Albania where the economy is maturing and growing, the average salary is around €400 - €500 a month. (Binmen earn around €150 - €200 a month). Yet the cost of living is not so removed from the UK - probably around 15% less and when you go to a major town or city there, you could easily be in London, Paris, etc. The black economy draws cash from private sector providers to the public sector and trickles that money down through various channels to the masses. It's the only way they can survive.
This creates a vicious circle. For the country to develop, it needs to raise tax revenue. But you can only raise tax revenue on money you know about. And when most of the civil service themselves benefit from a corrupt, black economy, the resolve to do something about this is not exactly strong. That leads to a breeding ground for crime and all that goes with it.
I've used Albania as an example but could list at least 20 nations like this.
Africa is on another level. Corruption in many places there isn't even kept quiet. I went to Sierra Leone a few years back. At the airport, a colleague and I were walking to the bus that takes you to the ferry to Freetown. A police officer offered to help us with the bags. Nice touch you might think. At the bus, he refused to let us take the bags unless we gave him $20.
Is the UK corrupt?
Absolutely not.
That does not mean corruption doesn't happen but the difference here is that it's a) very hard to corrupt anyone in public service, and b) if you do, highly likely that you (and they) will be called out on it. We have a level of scrutiny and transparency to exceptionally high levels. The closest we get is lobbying - "reduce taxes for my sector or I'll move my factory somewhere else" type things.
All of my clients are public sector. I was once hauled over the coals for bringing a tin of chocolate biscuits to a project wrap-up meeting. I cannot buy my clients a Costa without having to sign some form or another.
(They still had all the biscuits, though!!)
StevieBee said:
....In my view, corruption is the cancer of the world. Eradicate it and you solve every single major problem there is up to and including terrorism.
You will never eradicate corruption because it is an intrinsic part of human nature. you might as well wish for world peace and the existence of the tooth fairy while at it. It might be less brazen and obvious in 'civilised' countries as we like to think we are but people are quite frankly just dreaming if they think it doesn't still exist and underpin a lot of how things work.
lornemalvo said:
A former minister in Singapore has been arrested for accepting illegal gifts, the value being a fraction of what Starmer accepted. Singapore is listed as the 5th least perceived corrupt country n the world, the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
I think you've a somewhat sheltered view of the rest of the world. Which makes sense, given you live in the 20th least corrupt country in the world, according to perception.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
iphonedyou said:
lornemalvo said:
A former minister in Singapore has been arrested for accepting illegal gifts, the value being a fraction of what Starmer accepted. Singapore is listed as the 5th least perceived corrupt country n the world, the UK is listed as the 20th least perceived corrupt. Given our consecutive governments I would challenge that -
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
I think you've a somewhat sheltered view of the rest of the world. Which makes sense, given you live in the 20th least corrupt country in the world, according to perception.https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Having lived in a number of genuinely corrupt countries and the UK, IMO the UK is definitely well up the 'not corrupt' end of the spectrum. The fact is that journalists are free to route out corruption, that government politicians not just opposition politicians are called to account for accepting gifts, that you don't have to pay bribes for everything in your every day life from getting a driving license to paying your taxes, or not, corruption is actually investigated and sometimes prosecuted. A lot of that isn't true in actually corrupt countries.
isaldiri said:
StevieBee said:
....In my view, corruption is the cancer of the world. Eradicate it and you solve every single major problem there is up to and including terrorism.
You will never eradicate corruption because it is an intrinsic part of human nature. you might as well wish for world peace and the existence of the tooth fairy while at it. It might be less brazen and obvious in 'civilised' countries as we like to think we are but people are quite frankly just dreaming if they think it doesn't still exist and underpin a lot of how things work.
ds living in poverty in properly corrupt countries to claim the corruption in the UK is in any way equivalent.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff