Politicians and Freebies

[e600]

Given the current discussions regarding the PM and free gifts for him and his wife, plus all politicians in general, why don’t they simply have a rule/ law that says they can’t have any freebies.

This then stops criticism of doners looking for favours, suggestion of corruption and brings the issue to a close. No more “ I was late entering it into the book, I didn’t know I had to report it…….

The obvious answer is because they want it to continue, but we should be expecting more from them and holding them to a higher standard

[uk66fastback]

Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. I agree though, it should be outlawed.

[768]

But then how will the multi-millionaire PM and his wife be able to clothe themselves? And he'd never, ever, be able to go to the football again and what could be more important than that?

[Randy Winkman]

I basically agree but doesnt it link to political donations and why the heck anyone makes them?

[768]

Probably. But limiting personal donations and restricting it to cash to the party as a whole is probably still a better place than where we are.

[Super Sonic]

Is there not already a thread on this? It's not as if this is a new thing is it?

[sugerbear]

Does that also extend to the Royal Family as well?

[Crafty_]

e600 said:

Given the current discussions regarding the PM and free gifts for him and his wife, plus all politicians in general, why don’t they simply have a rule/ law that says they can’t have any freebies.

This then stops criticism of doners looking for favours, suggestion of corruption and brings the issue to a close. No more “ I was late entering it into the book, I didn’t know I had to report it…….

The obvious answer is because they want it to continue, but we should be expecting more from them and holding them to a higher standard

I presume that the whole point of the declaration system is so that its public knowledge who is sending gifts to ministers.
If it was banned, it'd still happen but we'd have no idea that Fred Bloggs MP is being influenced by Corp ABC, which is why the minister votes/lobbies for certain things.

The failing is that it requires ministers to be honest (not a trait they seem to share) and accurately declare gifts.

I suppose the next stage is that if an individual or organisation wish to send a minister a gift they register it themselves with an independent body prior to receipt of the gift. If the minister receives anything without the requisite paperwork they need to raise it as an issue. If this procedure isn't followed the donor gets a fine of, say, 500% of the gift value and the MP should be subject to disciplinary. Won't happen but if they cannot be trusted you have to take it out of their hands.

[deadslow]

768 said:

But then how will the multi-millionaire PM and his wife be able to clothe themselves? And he'd never, ever, be able to go to the football again and what could be more important than that?

don't remember you calling out Johnson, but hey ho, all freebies are bribes and need to be outlawed.

[super7]

The General population has been banned from accepting gifts at work for decades....... No more Grand Prix's, Football, Karting nights, boozy lunches for us anymore. No more schmuzing from Corporate sales people because it could all be seen as bribing the customer.

Why are the Government any different!!!!

I do remember our ops manager opening his boot at a golf course with a Hardware manufacturer to find a brand new set of clubs had appeared in his unlocked boot!

I had a very nice day out at Silverstone with Williams in 1997 with full garage access courtesy of another hardware manufacturer.

[Countdown]

super7 said:

The General population has been banned from accepting gifts at work for decades....... No more Grand Prix's, Football, Karting nights, boozy lunches for us anymore. No more schmuzing from Corporate sales people because it could all be seen as bribing the customer.

Why are the Government any different!!!!

I do remember our ops manager opening his boot at a golf course with a Hardware manufacturer to find a brand new set of clubs had appeared in his unlocked boot!

I had a very nice day out at Silverstone with Williams in 1997 with full garage access courtesy of another hardware manufacturer.

Corporate hospitality still happens. AIUI the only thing that has changed is that it is no longer tax deductible (but I could be wrong on that).

It's sometimes but not always dressed up as a training event or conference, usually somewhere like the Bahamas, Singapore, or Dubai .

[768]

deadslow said:

768 said:

But then how will the multi-millionaire PM and his wife be able to clothe themselves? And he'd never, ever, be able to go to the football again and what could be more important than that?

don't remember you calling out Johnson, but hey ho, all freebies are bribes and need to be outlawed.

I'd have had no problem with Johnson not being allowed wallpaper from a donor if it was proposed then. The only thing I've called Starmer out for there is the ridiculous idea that he needs to freeload.

[Newc]

Countdown said:

Corporate hospitality still happens. AIUI the only thing that has changed is that it is no longer tax deductible (but I could be wrong on that).

It's sometimes but not always dressed up as a training event or conference, usually somewhere like the Bahamas, Singapore, or Dubai .

Not in banking. Over the course of my career I went from entertaining asset managers with a helicopter tour of Italian vineyards, via a fully catered private box at a stadium, to no alcohol or clubs on expenses, to filing a report with compliance having bumped into a mate in Costa who paid for the cappuccinos.

If that's the requirement for the private sector, where the only people getting rinsed are shareholders willingly engaging in the free market, then it should be the absolute minimum requirement for elected officials spending taxpayers' money.

[Mojooo]

I worked for the Council and was helping a business with an issue. He offered to take me out to lunch and I declined as I knew that if the issue I was helping him with came up again he would put pressure on me to help him again/prioritise him.

If hospitality must be rejected at that low level then it is a bit odd its allows on a higher level which could have significant implications.

[Gecko1978]

Countdown said:

super7 said:

The General population has been banned from accepting gifts at work for decades....... No more Grand Prix's, Football, Karting nights, boozy lunches for us anymore. No more schmuzing from Corporate sales people because it could all be seen as bribing the customer.

Why are the Government any different!!!!

I do remember our ops manager opening his boot at a golf course with a Hardware manufacturer to find a brand new set of clubs had appeared in his unlocked boot!

I had a very nice day out at Silverstone with Williams in 1997 with full garage access courtesy of another hardware manufacturer.

Corporate hospitality still happens. AIUI the only thing that has changed is that it is no longer tax deductible (but I could be wrong on that).

It's sometimes but not always dressed up as a training event or conference, usually somewhere like the Bahamas, Singapore, or Dubai .

Basically if you are at the bottom no freebies, in the middle no freebies but you can be bought a coffee or have a charity t shirt. At the top no freebies but you can have what you like just don't tell anyone.

[oyster]

super7 said:

The General population has been banned from accepting gifts at work for decades....... No more Grand Prix's, Football, Karting nights, boozy lunches for us anymore. No more schmuzing from Corporate sales people because it could all be seen as bribing the customer.

Why are the Government any different!!!!

I do remember our ops manager opening his boot at a golf course with a Hardware manufacturer to find a brand new set of clubs had appeared in his unlocked boot!

I had a very nice day out at Silverstone with Williams in 1997 with full garage access courtesy of another hardware manufacturer.

But work gifts and freebies are still allowed. There is no ban.

There are safeguards, but so there are for MPs too.

[119]

oyster said:

But work gifts and freebies are still allowed. There is no ban.

There are safeguards, but so there are for MPs too.

Many big companies are no longer allowed to supply "food" to guests as it can be seen as a bribe.

[XCP]

There are still a lot of 'corporates' at Twickenham every time England play.

[Ridgemont]

119 said:

Many big companies are no longer allowed to supply "food" to guests as it can be seen as a bribe.

It’s a very tangled web.
My employer has certainly tightened up rules over the last couple of years.
A meal is fine but certainly no discussion of x, y and z.
Any gifts are completely no no.
Any concerns immediately reported to compliance with sackable consequences one way or another.
20 odd years ago it was fairly common practice to have lunch (extended) and then move onto discreet (or not so much) quid pro quo discussion of terms, usually followed by a pro bono perk. Nightclubs paid for etc. it was a bit Wild West.

That said what is bemusing is the complete variance in terms of policy from firm to firm. And the ever evolving nature of them. We have to take a twice yearly online course to make sure we understand the rule changes and it gets ever tighter and tighter especially as we deal with markets that have a lot less compunction around what is in effect an opportunity for corruption. Especially as the US laws get tighter.

The slightly bemusing thing is that seems to have passed Mister DPP completely by the by.

[Ridgemont]

XCP said:

There are still a lot of 'corporates' at Twickenham every time England play.

Having been in that situation I suspect much of it is a lot lighter or less devious than you think. You get a day at the rugby by an agency/supplier and drink beers and get told by your employer to leave it at that. Now whether some stuff goes on after the after party so to speak then that is pretty much why the rules are created. But the corporate entertainment adds up to usually a few thousand quid which happens in once in a blue moon for those lucky to get invited. Unless you are board level in which whole different rules apply but which are likewise much more visible and eagle eyed by compliance.

The global outfits are much more over this than the locals, for good reason. Mike Ashley can get away with any old crap. The big London firms not so much.