Why aren’t we building energy efficient homes?

[Skeptisk]

I was reading a report this morning about changes to building standards. Apparently for a new semi detached 3 bed house the extra cost of incorporating solar panels, a heat pump and batteries for storage is around £5k, yet annual energy costs would drop by two thirds from £1800 to £500. So pay back within a handful of years and clearly beneficial many times over for such long lived assets as houses. Yet because developers are not forced to do anything they generally don’t - relying on cheap gas boilers - which probably helps with their margins.

At a minimum developers should be forced to offer the option on new developments (and at cost) so that buyers can make a choice. You would have to be pretty stupid not to pay the £5k.

[98elise]

Skeptisk said:

I was reading a report this morning about changes to building standards. Apparently for a new semi detached 3 bed house the extra cost of incorporating solar panels, a heat pump and batteries for storage is around £5k, yet annual energy costs would drop by two thirds from £1800 to £500. So pay back within a handful of years and clearly beneficial many times over for such long lived assets as houses. Yet because developers are not forced to do anything they generally don’t - relying on cheap gas boilers - which probably helps with their margins.

At a minimum developers should be forced to offer the option on new developments (and at cost) so that buyers can make a choice. You would have to be pretty stupid not to pay the £5k.

I don't see how you can get those for 5k. Maybe 5k each.

[deadtom]

It is possible that I am very out of touch with the cost of these things now that they have been around for a few years, but is that figure definitely right? 5k for all three of those things sounds unfeasibly cheap; 5k for just one of those things would still be cheap in my mind.

My parents have an air source heat pump and I'm sure it cost something like 8k a couple of years ago.

[otolith]

I would think that cost to the builder of doing such things, while the house is being built, and instead of their usual arrangements, would be substantially less than the retail cost of retrofitting it. 5k still seems cheap, though.

[Dingu]

If house builders felt it would be profitable they probably would.

So at a guess it hasn’t been legislated as the feedback is that it would reduce house building.

If that is true perhaps some incentive for house builders would aid, as it makes sense for new stock to be future proofed and as efficient as possible.

[smokey mow]

Building Regulations are not prescriptive in this country. Instead they require a minimum energy performance on new buildings that must be met so this gives designers the opportunity to design and construct using their preferred methods.

The current standards that came out 2-years ago are actually incredibly difficult to achieve without some form of renewable energy incorporated in the building. Certainly if you are specifying a conventional boiler alone then this will not comply with the required Primary Energy Efficiency Rate the regulations require. Solar isn’t suitable for everyone as the roof may not be oriented in the correct direction and can be overshadowed.

[Cotty]

I didn't think heat pumps work well in the cold UK climate. Also heard they are noisy. Not for me.

[phil4]

Building firms will do the minimum they can get away with, and lobby hard to ensure that minimum doesn't increase. It was them that where a large voice lobbying not to outlaw gas boilers for example. They're why when they do do solar, it's the bare minimum of 4-6 panels. Why they won't fit car chargers, but simply run cables to a box that looks like a car charger. Every trick in the book to make sure they don't increase their costs.

[boyse7en]

Dingu said:

If house builders felt it would be profitable they probably would.

So at a guess it hasn’t been legislated as the feedback is that it would reduce house building.

If that is true perhaps some incentive for house builders would aid, as it makes sense for new stock to be future proofed and as efficient as possible.

Of course it's not profitable for the developer to build in extra efficiency. If they could ge away with it they would be fitting single-glazed windows and no loft insulation as i would save them money. That's why the government brings in minimum standards for energy efficiency and insulation on buildings.

Things are for the good of the consumer have to be legislated, as capitalism prefers to incentivise short-term gains for the builder over leng-term gains for society.

[98elise]

otolith said:

I would think that cost to the builder of doing such things, while the house is being built, and instead of their usual arrangements, would be substantially less than the retail cost of retrofitting it. 5k still seems cheap, though.

You can't buy the systems for that money so 5k has to be bks. The instalation costs aren't going to be much cheaper either.

5k won't even get you a heat pump installed.

[JagLover]

Skeptisk said:

I was reading a report this morning about changes to building standards. Apparently for a new semi detached 3 bed house the extra cost of incorporating solar panels, a heat pump and batteries for storage is around £5k,

The costs of the battery pack alone are close to £5k for a three bed.

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/solar-panels/stora...

[98elise]

Cotty said:

I didn't think heat pumps work well in the cold UK climate. Also heard they are noisy. Not for me.

They can struggle. You want the most heat when they are at their least capable.

They are as noisy as air conditioning as they are fundamentally the same thing (just reversed for heat)

Edited by 98elise on Thursday 12th September 12:53

Edited by 98elise on Thursday 12th September 13:01

[essayer]

what's the costs of bringing gas into a new development ?

[JagLover]

98elise said:

Cotty said:

I didn't think heat pumps work well in the cold UK climate. Also heard they are noisy. Not for me.

They struggle. You want the most heat when they are at their least capable.

They are as noisy as air conditioning as they are fundamentally the same thing (just reversed for heat)

I can just imagine the noise in your average densely packed new housing development when most of the housing has heat pumps.

[Dingu]

boyse7en said:

Dingu said:

If house builders felt it would be profitable they probably would.

So at a guess it hasn’t been legislated as the feedback is that it would reduce house building.

If that is true perhaps some incentive for house builders would aid, as it makes sense for new stock to be future proofed and as efficient as possible.

Of course it's not profitable for the developer to build in extra efficiency. If they could ge away with it they would be fitting single-glazed windows and no loft insulation as i would save them money. That's why the government brings in minimum standards for energy efficiency and insulation on buildings.

Things are for the good of the consumer have to be legislated, as capitalism prefers to incentivise short-term gains for the builder over leng-term gains for society.

The legislation has to balance the long term gain with short term gain of additional housing however.

[toon10]

I've been saying this for years. Builders are not going to spend money and reduce profits by making more energy efficient houses. That's where government comes in to introduce legislation to force them to. The flip side of mandating things like solar panels, garden turbines, etc. is that the builders will probably pass that cost back to the buyer. Houses are too expensive as it is.

[lrdisco]

Cotty said:

I didn't think heat pumps work well in the cold UK climate. Also heard they are noisy. Not for me.

What experience do you have?
They do work incredibly well in our climate but only in very well insulated properties. Not noisy at all.
UFH and slightly larger radiators on the 1st floor.
I have one myself but I’m about to start a new build and that will have a gas boiler, solar and batteries and the costs just do not stack up for ASHP if you have mains gas.
Total cost is well over £18,000 for all 3 on a new build at cost. 2000squ ft house.

[alangla]

98elise said:

You can't buy the systems for that money so 5k has to be bks. The instalation costs aren't going to be much cheaper either.

5k won't even get you a heat pump installed.

Surely the installation cost for the heat pump will be essentially nothing as you’re not installing a gas boiler plus you don’t need to plumb in a gas supply either to the house or to the estate if it’s a greenfield site. The solar panels I guess have a purchase cost but on the new builds around here they seem to be flush with the roof so replacing some of the tiles. Installation again pretty much zero I’d have thought given all the other wiring the electrician would be doing and the roofers will be up there anyway. The £5k uplift does still seem a bit implausible given the cost of purchasing the battery, solar panels and heat pump, albeit with a discount for not buying a boiler.

[TeaNoSugar]

essayer said:

what's the costs of bringing gas into a new development ?

Isn’t that a thing of the past now? I’m sure I read recently that new developments won’t be connected to gas supply main?

Just checked and it’s as of 2025 - Future Homes Standard means no new gas mains connections

[Scrimpton]

smokey mow said:

Building Regulations are not prescriptive in this country. Instead they require a minimum energy performance on new buildings that must be met so this gives designers the opportunity to design and construct using their preferred methods.

The current standards that came out 2-years ago are actually incredibly difficult to achieve without some form of renewable energy incorporated in the building. Certainly if you are specifying a conventional boiler alone then this will not comply with the required Primary Energy Efficiency Rate the regulations require. Solar isn’t suitable for everyone as the roof may not be oriented in the correct direction and can be overshadowed.

Yep, Part L is starting to come through now after all the buried foundations have been completed! An issue we've seen with ASHP, MVHR etc is that people don't know how it works. No matter how many times you explain it they expect to come home to a cold house, switch on the heating and warm everything up in 20 minutes like they would with a boiler.