Grenfell: failures + 'systematic dishonesty' = 72 dead

[Quhet]

Did a search and couldn't find the original thread(s).

The report out today of the public enquiry is pretty damning. Lets hope it leads to meaningful change.

Grenfell's path to disaster: How chain of failures and 'systematic dishonesty' led to 72 deaths - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgedv58e7ygo

Grenfell Report: Key findings from the inquiry - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c049yvrd5qxo

[Al Gorithum]

This is completely shocking. Surely there will be charges of corporate manslaughter and massive compensation claims?

[Eric Mc]

I bet not.

[Panamax]

What's truly crazy and illustrates the nonsense going on in UK today is that it's taken seven years for this report to emerge.

[KAgantua]

What a disgrace

[Byker28i]

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

[GreatGranny]

Was just about to post something on this.

The shear scale of failures year after year is a disgrace.
I was going to say shocking but after the infected blood scandal, Windrush and the Post Office it shouldn't shock any of us.

I can't see how there can't be prosecutions.
It will be something Starmer will hopefully make a priority.

[fly by wire]

The compensation claims will be enormous, running into many millions I would think.

Who will pay?

[Lotobear]

Byker28i said:

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

I think the problem with 'stay put' would have been that the compartmentation of each flat was getting breached externally as the fire spread up the outside of the building and entered each flat via window openings, a scenario probably never considered. It would usually be good advice until you clad the outside with flammable material.

[PhilkSVR]

The blame seems to attached to almost everyone. Central Government, Local Government, Contractors, Builders, Manufacturers. What a mess, never mind the personal tragedy for those involved. There are lots of heads to roll here and compensation. The next stage of pursuing those responsible could take years.

[Octoposse]

GreatGranny said:

I can't see how there can't be prosecutions.
It will be something Starmer will hopefully make a priority.

Can’t find it now (too many updates!), but I think the CPS has said they’ll be in a position to make a decision on charges at the end of 2026 !!

So, say, comes to court in 2028 . . . 11 years after the disaster?

[otolith]

Lotobear said:

Byker28i said:

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

I think the problem with 'stay put' would have been that the compartmentation of each flat was getting breached externally as the fire spread up the outside of the building and entered each flat via window openings, a scenario probably never considered. It would usually be good advice until you clad the outside with flammable material.

It's discussed in Volume 5 of the report. Lots of mentions of "stay put", this is the first one;



https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/sites/defa...

[732NM]

Byker28i said:

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

The report is written in a way that aims to save there being a requirement for a coroners enquiry into each victims case. They stated that all of the victims died from toxic gas inhalation before fire reached them.

[Gareth79]

Lotobear said:

Byker28i said:

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

I think the problem with 'stay put' would have been that the compartmentation of each flat was getting breached externally as the fire spread up the outside of the building and entered each flat via window openings, a scenario probably never considered. It would usually be good advice until you clad the outside with flammable material.

I remember the fire service giving evidence and it was incredible how they were basically "yeah we watched the fire spread up the outside and set alight to every flat, but our training and procedures never covered that so we didn't do anything".

[Sixsixtysix]

fly by wire said:

The compensation claims will be enormous, running into many millions I would think.

Who will pay?

Tax payers. It's always the tax payers.

[The Mad Monk]

Quhet said:

Did a search and couldn't find the original thread(s).

The report out today of the public enquiry is pretty damning. Lets hope it leads to meaningful change.

Grenfell's path to disaster: How chain of failures and 'systematic dishonesty' led to 72 deaths - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgedv58e7ygo

Grenfell Report: Key findings from the inquiry - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c049yvrd5qxo

The "Web of Blame" doesn't include The Fire Service.

Why not?

[Byker28i]

Lotobear said:

Byker28i said:

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

I think the problem with 'stay put' would have been that the compartmentation of each flat was getting breached externally as the fire spread up the outside of the building and entered each flat via window openings, a scenario probably never considered. It would usually be good advice until you clad the outside with flammable material.

Exactly that but some residents said they were told to stay put rather than evacuate immediately. The old fire brigade advice used to be get out and stay out, so I was wondering of there was anything now to change the stay put advice, or revise it to only if you can't get out?

[otolith]

The Mad Monk said:

Quhet said:

Did a search and couldn't find the original thread(s).

The report out today of the public enquiry is pretty damning. Lets hope it leads to meaningful change.

Grenfell's path to disaster: How chain of failures and 'systematic dishonesty' led to 72 deaths - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgedv58e7ygo

Grenfell Report: Key findings from the inquiry - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c049yvrd5qxo

The "Web of Blame" doesn't include The Fire Service.

Why not?

It's not a web of who was at fault, it's a diagram showing who blamed who. Presumably none of those parties had the chutzpah to blame the fire service.

[budgie smuggler]

This is long but worth a read,it goes into some of the deception from Celotex, Kingspan etc. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/14/a-...

It's absolutely sickening, heads should roll for it.

[Lotobear]

Byker28i said:

Lotobear said:

Byker28i said:

Sorry not read the report. Anything in it about the stay put, rather than the old advice of get out and stay out?

I think the problem with 'stay put' would have been that the compartmentation of each flat was getting breached externally as the fire spread up the outside of the building and entered each flat via window openings, a scenario probably never considered. It would usually be good advice until you clad the outside with flammable material.

Exactly that but some residents said they were told to stay put rather than evacuate immediately. The old fire brigade advice used to be get out and stay out, so I was wondering of there was anything now to change the stay put advice, or revise it to only if you can't get out?

It will very much depend on the fire evacuation plan for each individual building, there is no one size fits all approach. In most blocks of flats each living unit will be compartmented to at least 1hr, the idea being it is safer to stay put and await rescue that it is to attempt an escape through a route that may be smoke logged. I expect that was the plan at Grenfell as at the time no one anticipated an externally spreading fire.

..not read the report but there may be more to it than that.