Energy bills are going to reduced for good - really
Discussion
I am sure that Margaret Thatcher was certainly not the first to say, "You cannot buck the market".
That is now going to change though, because market forces are no longer going to apply to the cost of the energy that we buy in the UK.
It might be similar to a previous attempt to stop market forces working, which was called The Exchange Rate Mechanism.
It was so obvious from the outset that would not be possible and so it turned out, with the immediate consequence that interest rates increased to 15%.
Visit the Great British Energy website, enter your postcode and this will appear:-
Great British Energy is a very good name. It gives the impression that the government will be creating electricity and gas far more cheaply than anyone else in the world, then selling it without making a profit to hard up consumers and businesses. Brilliant.
Investigate a little further though and it is nothing like that at all.
The reality is that tax payers money is going to be invested by a government company called Great British Energy, in 'green' energy businesses.
Interestingly the Scottish government tried exactly this quite a few years ago. I don't know how much of the original money they now have left, but a number of the companies they invested in went into receivership.
One crazy venture they were sucked into, involved giant metal sausages, joined together in the same way as a string of sausages.
The hope was that when these were floated into areas of rough seas, each one moves up and down, then somehow electricity is magically created. They then needed cables to feed any electricity generated to a remote shore. How it was to reach mass populations was never explained.
Very rough seas became their first difficulty, repeatedly causing damage to the equipment, soon followed by another difficulty, shortage of money. The Scottish Government and also some gullible Scottish Councils, lost their tax payers £millions.
Anyway, as promised, we all look forward to our energy bills being cut for good.
That is now going to change though, because market forces are no longer going to apply to the cost of the energy that we buy in the UK.
It might be similar to a previous attempt to stop market forces working, which was called The Exchange Rate Mechanism.
It was so obvious from the outset that would not be possible and so it turned out, with the immediate consequence that interest rates increased to 15%.
Visit the Great British Energy website, enter your postcode and this will appear:-
Great British Energy is a very good name. It gives the impression that the government will be creating electricity and gas far more cheaply than anyone else in the world, then selling it without making a profit to hard up consumers and businesses. Brilliant.
Investigate a little further though and it is nothing like that at all.
The reality is that tax payers money is going to be invested by a government company called Great British Energy, in 'green' energy businesses.
Interestingly the Scottish government tried exactly this quite a few years ago. I don't know how much of the original money they now have left, but a number of the companies they invested in went into receivership.
One crazy venture they were sucked into, involved giant metal sausages, joined together in the same way as a string of sausages.
The hope was that when these were floated into areas of rough seas, each one moves up and down, then somehow electricity is magically created. They then needed cables to feed any electricity generated to a remote shore. How it was to reach mass populations was never explained.
Very rough seas became their first difficulty, repeatedly causing damage to the equipment, soon followed by another difficulty, shortage of money. The Scottish Government and also some gullible Scottish Councils, lost their tax payers £millions.
Anyway, as promised, we all look forward to our energy bills being cut for good.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 26th August 17:11
Since the other half dozen threads in which Great British Energy has been discussed this summer clearly are evidently not enough for OP:
Great British Energy, per the Government proposals, will be an operationally independent company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero. It's role will be to develop, invest in, own and operate clean energy projects. In other words, it is to build and own (wholly or alongside other investors) power plants that generate electricity for sale into the wholesale electricity markets through a variety of existing market mechanisms (Contracts for Differences, Corporate Power Purchase Agreements, Capacity Markets and on a merchant basis).
There is nothing unusual about this: our existing power plants are owned by private sector and foreign power sector companies that operate this way. It's just that this one will be owned by taxpayers. The previous Green Investment Bank also functioned in a similar and highly successful way: investing in green projects (at the development, construction or operation stages) and setting its own development platforms.
What it is not is an retail energy supplier like Bristol Energy or Robin Hood Energy. It will not be selling retail power directly to domestic and SME business customers but instead selling to existing suppliers and large business users through the aforementioned market mechanisms.
Nor is this a development agency like Scottish Enterprise that provides small scale funding to start ups through grants and/or loans. This is about taking major ownership stakes in large utility scale clean energy projects. Think offshore wind farms, major new onshore farms and 500 MW solar PV farms.
Currently UK spot market prices are set by reference to marginal cost pricing. Bids are submitted by generators for each half hour and are accepted in merit order from cheapest to most expensive. However, the price of all units of electricity is set according to the bid price of the most expensive unit needed to meet projected demand: this is the marginal cost. Renewable energy generators do not have fuel costs hence they have lowest marginal costs whereas natural gas has to buy fuel to burn. As a result, electricity prices are mostly set by highly volatile gas prices.
By increasing the proportion of electricity that comes from renewable energy we can reduce our exposure to gas prices: we are already at the point where we could run the grid without any gas plants running at times. The longer we can extend these periods, the more time we can spend at lower marginal cost and thus lower electricity bills. This is where Great British Energy comes in by helping to accelerate clean energy build out.
Separately, Ofgem launched the Review of Electricity Market Arrangements (REMA) in 2022. Earlier stages of the review looked at market reforms such as locational/zonal/nodal pricing and separating green/fossil fuel energy into separate pricing pools. The second round of consultation on proposed REMA reforms was launched in March 2024 (under the Conservative government). The outcome of this process may help energy reduce energy bills with our existing renewable generation, let alone future generation. This has nothing to do with Great British Energy though. Nor is it anything like the irrelevant ERM failure.
BTW it was Margaret Thatcher who first introduced the Non-Fossil Fuel Energy Obligation requiring the electricity distribution network operators to purchase electricity from the nuclear power and renewable energy sectors. But then she was very much ahead of the curve when it came to tackling climate change.
Great British Energy, per the Government proposals, will be an operationally independent company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero. It's role will be to develop, invest in, own and operate clean energy projects. In other words, it is to build and own (wholly or alongside other investors) power plants that generate electricity for sale into the wholesale electricity markets through a variety of existing market mechanisms (Contracts for Differences, Corporate Power Purchase Agreements, Capacity Markets and on a merchant basis).
There is nothing unusual about this: our existing power plants are owned by private sector and foreign power sector companies that operate this way. It's just that this one will be owned by taxpayers. The previous Green Investment Bank also functioned in a similar and highly successful way: investing in green projects (at the development, construction or operation stages) and setting its own development platforms.
What it is not is an retail energy supplier like Bristol Energy or Robin Hood Energy. It will not be selling retail power directly to domestic and SME business customers but instead selling to existing suppliers and large business users through the aforementioned market mechanisms.
Nor is this a development agency like Scottish Enterprise that provides small scale funding to start ups through grants and/or loans. This is about taking major ownership stakes in large utility scale clean energy projects. Think offshore wind farms, major new onshore farms and 500 MW solar PV farms.
Currently UK spot market prices are set by reference to marginal cost pricing. Bids are submitted by generators for each half hour and are accepted in merit order from cheapest to most expensive. However, the price of all units of electricity is set according to the bid price of the most expensive unit needed to meet projected demand: this is the marginal cost. Renewable energy generators do not have fuel costs hence they have lowest marginal costs whereas natural gas has to buy fuel to burn. As a result, electricity prices are mostly set by highly volatile gas prices.
By increasing the proportion of electricity that comes from renewable energy we can reduce our exposure to gas prices: we are already at the point where we could run the grid without any gas plants running at times. The longer we can extend these periods, the more time we can spend at lower marginal cost and thus lower electricity bills. This is where Great British Energy comes in by helping to accelerate clean energy build out.
Separately, Ofgem launched the Review of Electricity Market Arrangements (REMA) in 2022. Earlier stages of the review looked at market reforms such as locational/zonal/nodal pricing and separating green/fossil fuel energy into separate pricing pools. The second round of consultation on proposed REMA reforms was launched in March 2024 (under the Conservative government). The outcome of this process may help energy reduce energy bills with our existing renewable generation, let alone future generation. This has nothing to do with Great British Energy though. Nor is it anything like the irrelevant ERM failure.
BTW it was Margaret Thatcher who first introduced the Non-Fossil Fuel Energy Obligation requiring the electricity distribution network operators to purchase electricity from the nuclear power and renewable energy sectors. But then she was very much ahead of the curve when it came to tackling climate change.
Bulls
t, the bills are loaded up with the unwanted introduction of smart meters pay for them whether you have one or not, plus the subsidy for unneeded wind generators.
We are being taken for mugs
Can government think of any other way to make us pay more for power?
Can only get worse when idiot Milliband gets his crazy ideas implemented
t, the bills are loaded up with the unwanted introduction of smart meters pay for them whether you have one or not, plus the subsidy for unneeded wind generators.We are being taken for mugs
Can government think of any other way to make us pay more for power?
Can only get worse when idiot Milliband gets his crazy ideas implemented
Hill92 said:
Since the other half dozen threads in which Great British Energy has been discussed this summer clearly are evidently not enough for OP:
Great British Energy, per the Government proposals, will be an operationally independent company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero. It's role will be to develop, invest in, own and operate clean energy projects. In other words, it is to build and own (wholly or alongside other investors) power plants that generate electricity for sale into the wholesale electricity markets through a variety of existing market mechanisms (Contracts for Differences, Corporate Power Purchase Agreements, Capacity Markets and on a merchant basis).
There is nothing unusual about this: our existing power plants are owned by private sector and foreign power sector companies that operate this way. It's just that this one will be owned by taxpayers. The previous Green Investment Bank also functioned in a similar and highly successful way: investing in green projects (at the development, construction or operation stages) and setting its own development platforms.
What it is not is an retail energy supplier like Bristol Energy or Robin Hood Energy. It will not be selling retail power directly to domestic and SME business customers but instead selling to existing suppliers and large business users through the aforementioned market mechanisms.
Nor is this a development agency like Scottish Enterprise that provides small scale funding to start ups through grants and/or loans. This is about taking major ownership stakes in large utility scale clean energy projects. Think offshore wind farms, major new onshore farms and 500 MW solar PV farms.
Currently UK spot market prices are set by reference to marginal cost pricing. Bids are submitted by generators for each half hour and are accepted in merit order from cheapest to most expensive. However, the price of all units of electricity is set according to the bid price of the most expensive unit needed to meet projected demand: this is the marginal cost. Renewable energy generators do not have fuel costs hence they have lowest marginal costs whereas natural gas has to buy fuel to burn. As a result, electricity prices are mostly set by highly volatile gas prices.
By increasing the proportion of electricity that comes from renewable energy we can reduce our exposure to gas prices: we are already at the point where we could run the grid without any gas plants running at times. The longer we can extend these periods, the more time we can spend at lower marginal cost and thus lower electricity bills. This is where Great British Energy comes in by helping to accelerate clean energy build out.
Separately, Ofgem launched the Review of Electricity Market Arrangements (REMA) in 2022. Earlier stages of the review looked at market reforms such as locational/zonal/nodal pricing and separating green/fossil fuel energy into separate pricing pools. The second round of consultation on proposed REMA reforms was launched in March 2024 (under the Conservative government). The outcome of this process may help energy reduce energy bills with our existing renewable generation, let alone future generation. This has nothing to do with Great British Energy though. Nor is it anything like the irrelevant ERM failure.
BTW it was Margaret Thatcher who first introduced the Non-Fossil Fuel Energy Obligation requiring the electricity distribution network operators to purchase electricity from the nuclear power and renewable energy sectors. But then she was very much ahead of the curve when it came to tackling climate change.
Too long, didn't read. Will they save us money for good i.e. for ever?Great British Energy, per the Government proposals, will be an operationally independent company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero. It's role will be to develop, invest in, own and operate clean energy projects. In other words, it is to build and own (wholly or alongside other investors) power plants that generate electricity for sale into the wholesale electricity markets through a variety of existing market mechanisms (Contracts for Differences, Corporate Power Purchase Agreements, Capacity Markets and on a merchant basis).
There is nothing unusual about this: our existing power plants are owned by private sector and foreign power sector companies that operate this way. It's just that this one will be owned by taxpayers. The previous Green Investment Bank also functioned in a similar and highly successful way: investing in green projects (at the development, construction or operation stages) and setting its own development platforms.
What it is not is an retail energy supplier like Bristol Energy or Robin Hood Energy. It will not be selling retail power directly to domestic and SME business customers but instead selling to existing suppliers and large business users through the aforementioned market mechanisms.
Nor is this a development agency like Scottish Enterprise that provides small scale funding to start ups through grants and/or loans. This is about taking major ownership stakes in large utility scale clean energy projects. Think offshore wind farms, major new onshore farms and 500 MW solar PV farms.
Currently UK spot market prices are set by reference to marginal cost pricing. Bids are submitted by generators for each half hour and are accepted in merit order from cheapest to most expensive. However, the price of all units of electricity is set according to the bid price of the most expensive unit needed to meet projected demand: this is the marginal cost. Renewable energy generators do not have fuel costs hence they have lowest marginal costs whereas natural gas has to buy fuel to burn. As a result, electricity prices are mostly set by highly volatile gas prices.
By increasing the proportion of electricity that comes from renewable energy we can reduce our exposure to gas prices: we are already at the point where we could run the grid without any gas plants running at times. The longer we can extend these periods, the more time we can spend at lower marginal cost and thus lower electricity bills. This is where Great British Energy comes in by helping to accelerate clean energy build out.
Separately, Ofgem launched the Review of Electricity Market Arrangements (REMA) in 2022. Earlier stages of the review looked at market reforms such as locational/zonal/nodal pricing and separating green/fossil fuel energy into separate pricing pools. The second round of consultation on proposed REMA reforms was launched in March 2024 (under the Conservative government). The outcome of this process may help energy reduce energy bills with our existing renewable generation, let alone future generation. This has nothing to do with Great British Energy though. Nor is it anything like the irrelevant ERM failure.
BTW it was Margaret Thatcher who first introduced the Non-Fossil Fuel Energy Obligation requiring the electricity distribution network operators to purchase electricity from the nuclear power and renewable energy sectors. But then she was very much ahead of the curve when it came to tackling climate change.
Jon39 said:
I am sure that Margaret Thatcher...
Jesus Christ. Wring your panties out before you try and jump into them.
Why does no one feel the need to post peer reviewed, fact based, data anymore.
'Sausages'?
Yeah, it's probably the Ukrainians stopping the oil being cruise shipped over to Kansas or something, amirite.
Fast and Spurious said:
Too long, didn't read. Will they save us money for good i.e. for ever?
Forever is a long time. Right now, solar and wind are the cheapest sources of new generation in the UK and globally. So until Nuclear fusion stops being 20 years away and actually delivers on promises of energy utopia then it's the best we've got.Hill92 said:
Forever is a long time. Right now, solar and wind are the cheapest sources of new generation in the UK and globally. So until Nuclear fusion stops being 20 years away and actually delivers on promises of energy utopia then it's the best we've got.
The problem goes back decades, we should have built more nuclear power stations, instead of relying on buying in power. To date nuclear is one of the cleanest and cheapest ways to make power, but we under invested, mainly because nuclear=bad.Solar and wind are both reliant on the weather, solar is especialy bad as it generates power when it isnt needed as much.
Ive never understood why , as an island, we cant use the sea tides etc better. I know some things have been tried, but water is surely a very cheap way of doing things.
The Hoover dam makes enough for Las vagus.
Im no expert tho.
richhead said:
The problem goes back decades, we should have built more nuclear power stations, instead of relying on buying in power. To date nuclear is one of the cleanest and cheapest ways to make power, but we under invested, mainly because nuclear=bad.
Solar and wind are both reliant on the weather, solar is especialy bad as it generates power when it isnt needed as much.
Ive never understood why , as an island, we cant use the sea tides etc better. I know some things have been tried, but water is surely a very cheap way of doing things.
The Hoover dam makes enough for Las vagus.
Im no expert tho.
Using tides and currents around the uk have been looked and trialed for a long time but none have worked at scale. From what I understand the technology is too expensive and the sea is a harsh climate which pushes up costs too high to make it worthwhile. Solar and wind are both reliant on the weather, solar is especialy bad as it generates power when it isnt needed as much.
Ive never understood why , as an island, we cant use the sea tides etc better. I know some things have been tried, but water is surely a very cheap way of doing things.
The Hoover dam makes enough for Las vagus.
Im no expert tho.
Getragdogleg said:
Is it possible to take a 4 bed house with 6 living in it totally off grid?
I'm looking into it. Everything about electricity is now so mired in interfering and profiteering it's a joke.
I'd rather paddle my own canoe.
I've been having similar thoughts. On the face of it, if you aren't using electricity for heating, it should be easily possible. The amount of power you'd need is lower than 20 years ago - you could light your entire house with supermarket LED bulbs for the same draw as a single incandescent bulb for a start. TVs are more efficient now, and even white goods appliances don't draw as much.I'm looking into it. Everything about electricity is now so mired in interfering and profiteering it's a joke.
I'd rather paddle my own canoe.
Water - rain will cover your needs, as long as you have space for a large tank to collect rainwater however... Collecting and reusing grey water for toilet flushing would save a lot.
Though the water company would still want paying for surface water drainage and sewage (and it's "treatment")
The issue would be heating - wood burners etc with a back boiler work well from people I know with them, BUT their houses have also been fitted with serious insulation, so their heating needs are also very low.
The real killer is the Standing Charges - with direct debit you're looking at paying £200 per year to them before you use any gas or electricity. If you're on a prepayment meter it's over £300!
Plymo said:
I've been having similar thoughts. On the face of it, if you aren't using electricity for heating, it should be easily possible. The amount of power you'd need is lower than 20 years ago - you could light your entire house with supermarket LED bulbs for the same draw as a single incandescent bulb for a start. TVs are more efficient now, and even white goods appliances don't draw as much.
Water - rain will cover your needs, as long as you have space for a large tank to collect rainwater however... Collecting and reusing grey water for toilet flushing would save a lot.
Though the water company would still want paying for surface water drainage and sewage (and it's "treatment")
The issue would be heating - wood burners etc with a back boiler work well from people I know with them, BUT their houses have also been fitted with serious insulation, so their heating needs are also very low.
The real killer is the Standing Charges - with direct debit you're looking at paying £200 per year to them before you use any gas or electricity. If you're on a prepayment meter it's over £300!
Who's that with? Obviously it depends where you are but I'm just over £300 with direct debit which drives me nuts. Without standing charges my bills would be about £30 a month.Water - rain will cover your needs, as long as you have space for a large tank to collect rainwater however... Collecting and reusing grey water for toilet flushing would save a lot.
Though the water company would still want paying for surface water drainage and sewage (and it's "treatment")
The issue would be heating - wood burners etc with a back boiler work well from people I know with them, BUT their houses have also been fitted with serious insulation, so their heating needs are also very low.
The real killer is the Standing Charges - with direct debit you're looking at paying £200 per year to them before you use any gas or electricity. If you're on a prepayment meter it's over £300!
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