Worklessness in UK
Discussion
Sheepshanks said:
This was discussed at length recently IIRC the UK is pretty average.
Where does 2.5% come from? Unemployment rates on their own are far higher than that.
2.5 does seem low unless there is some other nuance to the metric. I think eve the US generally has a similar level of non-working, working age adults as we do. But just because someone is working age, doesn't mean they are capable of work, even if they want to, due to long term illness or complications from birth etc. maybe they have worked but retired early with enough funds to sustain them (plenty do). Needs drilling down a few layers I think.Where does 2.5% come from? Unemployment rates on their own are far higher than that.
Some retire early before ‘official’ retirement age.
Some will have disabilities and conditions that mean they can’t work or find it difficult to find suitable work.
Some will have caring responsibilities.
Some simply don’t need to work.
Some will be in areas of low opportunity/high unemployment with limited social mobility.
Some are content to live on benefits.
Some are workshy layabouts.
Some will be working but not informing the taxman.
Not as simple as telling people to get a job for the good of the economy. Most will need some sort of support structure in place before they can even contemplate joining the workforce.
Some will have disabilities and conditions that mean they can’t work or find it difficult to find suitable work.
Some will have caring responsibilities.
Some simply don’t need to work.
Some will be in areas of low opportunity/high unemployment with limited social mobility.
Some are content to live on benefits.
Some are workshy layabouts.
Some will be working but not informing the taxman.
Not as simple as telling people to get a job for the good of the economy. Most will need some sort of support structure in place before they can even contemplate joining the workforce.
Economically, the numbers not working seems less important than numbers needing state support to not work.
I could imagine a good part of that 20% being early retirees and parents with working spouses who will be doing little harm to the economic health of the country. Spending wealth drives an economy just as much as producing by working.
I could imagine a good part of that 20% being early retirees and parents with working spouses who will be doing little harm to the economic health of the country. Spending wealth drives an economy just as much as producing by working.
Agreed the headline figure doesn’t tell us enough and is more useful if broken down (I haven’t seen these figures).
2.5% means you have enough ‘spare’ people available to support a growing economy. It also means that ‘drains/overheads’ on outgoings are minimal thus supporting a bigger spend pot for public and private purses, resulting in funding for better healthcare, schooling, public services, infrastructure, construction and service industry et al.
2.5% means you have enough ‘spare’ people available to support a growing economy. It also means that ‘drains/overheads’ on outgoings are minimal thus supporting a bigger spend pot for public and private purses, resulting in funding for better healthcare, schooling, public services, infrastructure, construction and service industry et al.
Surely back a few decades it would be even higher due to the number of stay-at-home mothers?
My brother is economically inactive, but that’s because his wife turns over hundreds of thousands a year and he just doesn’t need to do anything.
I’d say that’s a fairly meaningless statistic without a lot more detail. I don’t disagree with it; take a trip to a large shopping centre during the day (when most people ‘should’ be working) and it’ll be jam-packed.
My brother is economically inactive, but that’s because his wife turns over hundreds of thousands a year and he just doesn’t need to do anything.
I’d say that’s a fairly meaningless statistic without a lot more detail. I don’t disagree with it; take a trip to a large shopping centre during the day (when most people ‘should’ be working) and it’ll be jam-packed.
Agree with the comments on how the figure lacks nuance and there are many reasons why people might not be in work or seeking work. Many legitimate.
Trends are just as important as absolute figures. I don't know if it's still the case but I remember reading post pandemic that increases in student numbers and increases in those on long term sick were a large part of the reason it was trending higher.
Trends are just as important as absolute figures. I don't know if it's still the case but I remember reading post pandemic that increases in student numbers and increases in those on long term sick were a large part of the reason it was trending higher.
What is all this 'work' that people should be doing?
What is the real value of much of the work that people are doing?
How much is just 'churn' to make the economy look bigger and to generate a bit of tax?
If you look at the % of people who do anything to bring money into the country it isn't very big.
Large numbers of people are very busy doing nothing very useful.
What is the real value of much of the work that people are doing?
How much is just 'churn' to make the economy look bigger and to generate a bit of tax?
If you look at the % of people who do anything to bring money into the country it isn't very big.
Large numbers of people are very busy doing nothing very useful.
OutInTheShed said:
What is all this 'work' that people should be doing?
What is the real value of much of the work that people are doing?
How much is just 'churn' to make the economy look bigger and to generate a bit of tax?
If you look at the % of people who do anything to bring money into the country it isn't very big.
Large numbers of people are very busy doing nothing very useful.
There are vast numbers of vacancies in the leisure sector (eating out etc), literally just heard on a YouTube stream that Virgin Airlines can't get staff, we always never have enough warehouse staff at our place to load the lorries meaning delays and we are always short of HGV drivers as well. Seems to be lots of vacancies in a lot of areas and I wouldn't say they are meaningless jobs. What is the real value of much of the work that people are doing?
How much is just 'churn' to make the economy look bigger and to generate a bit of tax?
If you look at the % of people who do anything to bring money into the country it isn't very big.
Large numbers of people are very busy doing nothing very useful.
towser44 said:
There are vast numbers of vacancies in the leisure sector (eating out etc), literally just heard on a YouTube stream that Virgin Airlines can't get staff, we always never have enough warehouse staff at our place to load the lorries meaning delays and we are always short of HGV drivers as well. Seems to be lots of vacancies in a lot of areas and I wouldn't say they are meaningless jobs.
They're not meaningless jobs but I wonder what event might have resulted in there being a worker supply problem. It wasn't a cushy life on benefits that caused it.The worrying thing is if they think they can punish those who are sick into going out to work due to starving them of needed benefits. Something the last government was fond of trying despite how often it failed to work as it got favourable headlines.
A thread here talking about the lack of older workers and why they've decided to say sod this for a game of soldiers:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
OutInTheShed said:
What is all this 'work' that people should be doing?
What is the real value of much of the work that people are doing?
How much is just 'churn' to make the economy look bigger and to generate a bit of tax?
If you look at the % of people who do anything to bring money into the country it isn't very big.
Large numbers of people are very busy doing nothing very useful.
But what is real value?What is the real value of much of the work that people are doing?
How much is just 'churn' to make the economy look bigger and to generate a bit of tax?
If you look at the % of people who do anything to bring money into the country it isn't very big.
Large numbers of people are very busy doing nothing very useful.
What is useful?
The NHS doesn't bring much money into the country. So does that mean it has no real value or it isn't useful?
Rusty Old-Banger said:
The irony of people posting on PH during "normal" working hours, bemoaning that people don't work 
Yes yes glass houses etc
Lol agreed.Yes yes glass houses etc
However, I will put on my powerfully built head and point out that every hour for me is potentially a work hour, I can't even put my phone on silent just in case.
Flexi time cuts both ways. If I have to be available 247 I'm perfectly happy to skive a bit during those hours.
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