Where woke policies go wrong?

[ED209]

This has been coming for a while, surprised more police forces haven’t had cases taken against them to be honest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13736409/...

[Terminator X]

Controversial but discriminatory policies should apply to all.

TX.

[Mrr T]

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

[mac96]

This reads as the force ignoring its processes, or not at the time having a process which would allow the rapid promotion of minority groups.
So they 'just made it happen' (ironically, as ifthey were in The Sweeney) which is what cost them the case.

[Mr Whippy]

mac96 said:

This reads as the force ignoring its processes, or not at the time having a process which would allow the rapid promotion of minority groups.
So they 'just made it happen' (ironically, as ifthey were in The Sweeney) which is what cost them the case.

But “allow rapid promotion” of minority groups is surely discriminatory also?

Ie. Bob is promoted more easily and earns more sooner because of their ethnicity, vs Jim who isn’t.


It’s racism. In the worst possible sense. Held back because of your genes of which you had no say over and which you’re born with.

In the 90s we were constantly bombarded with “we’re all the same” messaging, even MTVs (iirc) advert with x-Ray videos of people’s heads, you could only say we were human, age, colour, gender etc, were all irrelevant.

But today it seems all these labels ARE important now… and define job opportunities and thus socio-economic opportunities.

Racism.

[DMN]

Mrr T said:

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

Woke is a US term. Imported over here by people trying to start a culture war.

[Derek Smith]

I am still in contact with officers in my old force and I've been told of jobs being offered with the rider, preference will be given to minority applicants. At least one officer put in a report, which was returned with the statement that it was Home Office policy, as if that was some form of get out of gaol free card. It seemed my force was not the only one suffering such challenges.

While I can see the reasoning, it was unfair. It's attacking the 'problem' from the wrong end.

I applied for a post where the fact that a woman had been chosen for the post was well known and all but admitted, and boasted of by her. I was told there was no point in applying. I still applied - the interview process was quite involved and there were visits to various places and processes that seemed, and were, fun. The tests were testing. So testing, the woman failed spectacularly on one non-competitive and essential requirement.

I didn't want the post, didn't get it, but neither did she. I'm told by one bloke said he would take it further if the woman got the post as he did well in the tests.

[mwstewart]

A lot of this goes on and extends to schemes and other initiatives. The case here is potentially significant and will hopefully help to level the playing field.

[LivLL]

DMN said:

Mrr T said:

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

Woke is a US term. Imported over here by people trying to start a culture war.

Didn't realise Google search was broken but here you go

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/engli...

African-American slang which is now mainstream

[Otispunkmeyer]

The whole thing stinks anyway. Everything should be on merit. You promote the best people for the job regardless of pretty much anything else. I know that is idealistic.

[dave123456]

Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome is the only sustainable solution.

Skewing the outcome to match the idea of equality is a slippery slope.

[SlimJim16v]

There are a lot of minorities in the higher ranks for an organisation consisting of mainly white males

[AmyRichardson]

dave123456 said:

Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome is the only sustainable solution.

Indeed, and it has to be hoped that the two converge over time.

If they don't, and after a generation of notional equality of opportunity you're still looking out at a sea of white, male faces, then there's a deeper issue (presumably subtle, extraneous and/or informal factors maintaining the status quo) and then policy needs to be a little more sledgehammer-esque. That's where positive discrimination comes in.

Ironically, as has been the case with "artificially assisting" women into board level management, encouraging equality of outcomes tends to be very sustainable, once you have it it tends to persist even as the mechanisms of intervention are done away with.

[dave123456]

AmyRichardson said:

dave123456 said:

Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome is the only sustainable solution.

Indeed, and it has to be hoped that the two converge over time.

If they don't, and after a generation of notional equality of opportunity you're still looking out at a sea of white, male faces, then there's a deeper issue (presumably subtle, extraneous and/or informal factors maintaining the status quo) and then policy needs to be a little more sledgehammer-esque. That's where positive discrimination comes in.

Ironically, as has been the case with "artificially assisting" women into board level management, encouraging equality of outcomes tends to be very sustainable, once you have it it tends to persist even as the mechanisms of intervention are done away with.

Not sure I agree. If equality of opportunity results in a “sea of white male faces” then maybe you need to look further afield in terms of where you are measuring.

You can artificially assist as much as you like but if you are sticking round pegs in square holes and telling them they have done well then the round pegs will wind up feeling unfulfilled and the square pegs will end up resentful.

I’m not sure why you would need to “artificially assist” beyond providing a level playing field of opportunities.

[captain_cynic]

LivLL said:

DMN said:

Mrr T said:

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

Woke is a US term. Imported over here by people trying to start a culture war.

Didn't realise Google search was broken but here you go

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/engli...

African-American slang which is now mainstream

Usage is the ultimate arbiter of language.

The definition of "woke" has become "something I don't like"... Usually something they don't like but can't argue against without sounding like a .

[Challo]

captain_cynic said:

LivLL said:

DMN said:

Mrr T said:

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

Woke is a US term. Imported over here by people trying to start a culture war.

Didn't realise Google search was broken but here you go

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/engli...

African-American slang which is now mainstream

Usage is the ultimate arbiter of language.

The definition of "woke" has become "something I don't like"... Usually something they don't like but can't argue against without sounding like a .

I cannot stand people using the term woke. As you state it just a term thrown at things people do not like, in an attempt to mock them.

[bitchstewie]

Mrr T said:

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

Alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.

Clearly terrible qualities.

[Louis Balfour]

bhstewie said:

Alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.

Clearly terrible qualities.

Some people think so.

[GetCarter]

ED209 said:

This has been coming for a while, surprised more police forces haven’t had cases taken against them to be honest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13736409/...

You do realise you're linking to The Daily Mail don't you?

[dave123456]

bhstewie said:

Mrr T said:

Can anybody tell me what a woke is and what there policies are?

Alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.

Clearly terrible qualities.

One persons alert is another’s over sensitive.