Policing by Consent

Author
Discussion

ruggedscotty

Original Poster:

5,794 posts

216 months

Sunday 4th August
quotequote all
Are we reaching the conclusion of this mode of policing ?

Are we getting to the point that unless the government acts we will reach a lawlessness across the country ?

What is to be done with the riots ? what is the answer to that ?

There has to be an answer as it cant go on, it seems there are determined individuals that act on any excuse to cause trouble.


The stop oil terrorists... and not being allowed to get them moved when they are obstructing...

Riots around the country appearing to be sections of society using events to cause disruptions.

What would be a realistic solution to this. How would you stop it and restore the sanity here ?

Beati Dogu

9,193 posts

146 months

Sunday 4th August
quotequote all
Well, it you peasants would just accept a digital ID, a central bank digital currently and a Chinese-style social credit system, I'm sure the politicians who deliberately created this mess will promise to resolve all your ills for you.

Rivenink

3,936 posts

113 months

Sunday 4th August
quotequote all
No.

Riots are not new. Those who commit violence, vandalism and destruction of property will be dealt with.

Peaceful protests are a normal part of democracy. They might be an annoyance; but that's kind of the point.

ruggedscotty

Original Poster:

5,794 posts

216 months

Sunday 4th August
quotequote all
Beati Dogu said:
Well, it you peasants would just accept a digital ID, a central bank digital currently and a Chinese-style social credit system, I'm sure the politicians who deliberately created this mess will promise to resolve all your ills for you.
Yup were in a mess through politics. however rioters can thave cart blanche to do what they want isnt the answer...

Boringvolvodriver

10,077 posts

50 months

Sunday 4th August
quotequote all
Rivenink said:
No.

Riots are not new. Those who commit violence, vandalism and destruction of property will be dealt with.

Peaceful protests are a normal part of democracy. They might be an annoyance; but that's kind of the point.
Exactly this - what we don’t want to happen is a move into an authoritarian state where the police effectively become the judge and jury and dispense justice as they see fit.

What we need are politicians who are able to tell the population the truth and make difficult decisions - sadly that won’t happen no matter what colour of rosette they wear.


donkmeister

9,249 posts

107 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Boringvolvodriver said:
Rivenink said:
No.

Riots are not new. Those who commit violence, vandalism and destruction of property will be dealt with.

Peaceful protests are a normal part of democracy. They might be an annoyance; but that's kind of the point.
Exactly this - what we don’t want to happen is a move into an authoritarian state where the police effectively become the judge and jury and dispense justice as they see fit.

What we need are politicians who are able to tell the population the truth and make difficult decisions - sadly that won’t happen no matter what colour of rosette they wear.
Policing by consent isn't "with the consent of criminals", it's with the consent of The People, and frankly as a member of The People I am quite happy for the Police to bang heads together when appropriate.

It's not authoritarian to want people to not break the law and endanger their fellow man. Peaceful protest, without infringing anyone else's liberties, is a cornerstone of democracy. But peaceful protest is not what's getting people upset is it. It's thugs, mobs, and people deciding that their cause is so important that they don't have to obey the law or let others get on with their lives.

I used to live spitting distance from several embassies, so I have seen a lot of peaceful protests. But there's a big difference between an organised group of people showing up at their pre-agreed time to peacefully convey their message directly to the people they have a grievance with, and what we're seeing now. Peaceful protest doesn't even have to be an annoyance. The ones outside embassies I've seen have been the sort of thing you go and look at for a minute, maybe take a leaflet, read up and learn something about the world. Noone breaks a window to nick trainers, no-one shouts about Allan's Snackbar, and generally they all have a full set of teeth.

RSTurboPaul

11,270 posts

265 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Beati Dogu said:
Well, it you peasants would just accept a digital ID, a central bank digital currently and a Chinese-style social credit system, I'm sure the politicians who deliberately created this mess will promise to resolve all your ills for you.
So they create a problem, foment a reaction, and then have a solution to hand that happens to deliver progress towards their apparent desired goals?

Nooooo, that sort of thing would never happen, you conspiracy theorist wink

PRTVR

7,441 posts

228 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
For some parts of society violence is the answer, do we expect them to write a strongly worded letter to the Guardian?
They live on estates were most of the migrants are been sent due to the low cost social housing impacting them disproportionately.

High levels of migration has been a problem for years, it's been ignored by all politicians, what options do these people have to vent their anger at decisions made when keeping quiet achieves nothing, what we are looking at with the riots is the effect of actions and inaction by politicians over many years.

Some are calling for the army to be sent in, but that won't work, the army is predominantly right wing, who else would be prepared to die for your country.

Perhaps more of a robust style policing like the French, the only problem with that is we are struggling to recruit as it is and finding more police doesn't happen overnight.

Watching some of the videos of the riots I feel sorry for the police, stuck between a rock and a hard place with limited resources frown

skwdenyer

17,958 posts

247 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Policing of any sort only works if there are enough police. We're still at least 20k below minimum force strength, and we now have terribly young officers having lost so many experienced hands. We don't train officers well enough now, either.

There have been, and always will be, riots and protests. Not having enough officers to cope with even this relatively low level of trouble is a big red flag for the future, however.

Vasco

17,366 posts

112 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
I'm not sure that anything much needs to be done. We've had serious outbursts and riots for ever and a day and it's right that a democracy allows people to make their views well known.

What appears to be sadly lacking these days is sufficient police and other general support for maintaining law and order in the face of some very determined thugs.
.

Randy Winkman

17,758 posts

196 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
I think we need more police and a more visible police presence. And to those that say that everyone wants only other people to be taxed more, I'd pay more tax for it.

vikingaero

11,225 posts

176 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Vasco said:
I'm not sure that anything much needs to be done. We've had serious outbursts and riots for ever and a day and it's right that a democracy allows people to make their views well known.

What appears to be sadly lacking these days is sufficient police and other general support for maintaining law and order in the face of some very determined thugs.
.
Democracy is weak and everyone from the rioters to JSO take advantage of this because the consequences are weak and so far down the line. It's a similar situation to people espousing and upholding the principles of a free press when the press themselves abuse their privileges.

Mr Miata

1,101 posts

57 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
People are thinking they’re being let down by political correctness, police inaction, a weak court system and an immigration system that’s not fit for purpose.

The riots are a form of vigilantism. People think they need to protest because nothing else is been done.

The only way they get listened to, is when the riot hits the mainstream media. Peaceful protests don’t get noticed and ignored.

The Government and the Main Stream Media are labelling anyone they don’t like as “far right”. Is a 70 year old woman with a pacemaker who’s appalled that the young girls got stabbed “a far right hooligan ”?


The Gauge

3,230 posts

20 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
PC Rain will quash the riots single handed.

Come the winter, and the return of the football season the number of rioters taking to the streets will dwindle.

It’s mostly the scum of society that is taking part in the riots. I’m strongly against our country’s relaxed approach to illegal immigration and its two tier policing, yet I have no inclination to take to the streets.

Edited by The Gauge on Monday 5th August 10:02

skwdenyer

17,958 posts

247 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Mr Miata said:
Is a 70 year old woman with a pacemaker who’s appalled that the young girls got stabbed “a far right hooligan ”?
Is she not because she’s 70? Or a woman? Or has a pacemaker?

There *are* some people with very hard right views. Some of them have been out and about this weekend. Some of them are women. Some of them will still hold those views when older (it isn’t just “a phase”).

That doesn’t mean everyone protesting is. But let’s not start profiling by age and gender, too smile

Vanden Saab

14,794 posts

81 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
It went the same way as the consent of the losers. It is amazing that the same group of politicians who did everything in their power to overturn a democratic decision now somehow expect those on the losing side to fall in line and accept that they are now in charge and their ideas should be agreed with and allowed to happen. You reap what you sow. Those of us who pointed out how this would end are vindicated and those who did not understand what we were saying are surprised at what is going on.

PRTVR

7,441 posts

228 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
Mr Miata said:
People are thinking they’re being let down by political correctness, police inaction, a weak court system and an immigration system that’s not fit for purpose.

The riots are a form of vigilantism. People think they need to protest because nothing else is been done.

The only way they get listened to, is when the riot hits the mainstream media. Peaceful protests don’t get noticed and ignored.

The Government and the Main Stream Media are labelling anyone they don’t like as “far right”. Is a 70 year old woman with a pacemaker who’s appalled that the young girls got stabbed “a far right hooligan ”?
Correct, here is a video showing two tier policing.
https://youtu.be/LwQxIoXODcI?si=GOe9QqECrGhmQz3_
The police don't do themselves any favours in the modern digital age.

Countdown

42,037 posts

203 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
I agree with the "Two Tier Policing" comments - it would be great to see some of those rioters being tasered and having their heads stamped on.


Ian Geary

4,734 posts

199 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
It is ironic that the middle two paragraphs of this exactly coincides with Just Stop Oil's view:

Not being listened to
Nothing else working

Mr Miata said:
People are thinking they’re being let down by political correctness, police inaction, a weak court system and an immigration system that’s not fit for purpose.

The riots are a form of vigilantism. People think they need to protest because nothing else is been done.

The only way they get listened to, is when the riot hits the mainstream media. Peaceful protests don’t get noticed and ignored.

The Government and the Main Stream Media are labelling anyone they don’t like as “far right”. Is a 70 year old woman with a pacemaker who’s appalled that the young girls got stabbed “a far right hooligan ”?
And what happened? New legislation passed to heavily criminalise their attempts to get round "nothing else was working". Will we see this I wonder?

The first paragraph is true - the culprits have been held responsible at the ballot box.

The last paragraph - I don't think that's true. I saw a pic in the grauniad this morning of a protestor giving a nazi salute to the police (which I can't now find else id post it).
There are protestors breaking into hotels and setting them on fire with people still in. Stopping cars to question non white drivers.

They are the hard right being referred to. Your 70 year old granny is not the one throwing slabs at the police, and is a complete straw granny on your part.

ferret50

1,591 posts

16 months

Monday 5th August
quotequote all
When did anyone last see a pair of coppers out on patrol?

On foot, stopping to talk to members of the public?

This, really is the root of the social disorder that we are currently seeing, get more plod out in a visable manner.

I sold a property on the Algarve earlier this year, one of the more reassuring aspects of living in the sun was seeing local plod out walking around, OK, they all had a small howitser strapped to their waist, but they were out there and visable, made one feel very much safer.

Bring back beat bobby's!