Army racism apology to black ‘poster girl’ soldier

[s1962a]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84jzex9vk8o

Looks like the armed forces haven't learnt at all. Racism and prejudice seemed to be ingrained in the culture, and people don't seem to see anything wrong with it.

article said:

- During one of her first postings, to Germany, she was told to avoid a certain corridor because soldiers were openly displaying swastikas, Confederate flags and other symbols associated with the far right

- Male soldiers would shout out racially offensive insults - followed by “I'd still shag you though”

- She was reprimanded by a senior female soldier during training for the way she wore her hair in braids to go swimming. “This isn't the ghetto,” she was told

Boxes and dirty crockery would be piled high on her desk, she says, and people would shout out “watermelon” as “their signal that a black person was approaching the office”.

How can the army expect more people to join up with a culture like that?

[272BHP]

s1962a said:

How can the army expect more people to join up with a culture like that?

There isn't a culture like that.

It might happen for sure as there are idiots everywhere. The fact that she recorded conversations makes me think she was not cut out for Army life in the first place. I rarely saw any racist incident in the Army but when it did rear its ugly head it was stamped on so hard the individuals feet never touched the ground.

I don't see anything racist about the "tar and feather" comment either - what was the context? She might have done something mind-bogglingly stupid. Every CSM/RSM I have ever known would have no qualms about uttering such a thing, it is actually quite tame.

[Countdown]

272BHP said:

There isn't a culture like that.

It might happen for sure as there are idiots everywhere. The fact that she recorded conversations makes me think she was not cut out for Army life in the first place. I rarely saw any racist incident in the Army but when it did rear its ugly head it was stamped on so hard the individuals feet never touched the ground.

I don't see anything racist about the "tar and feather" comment either - what was the context? She might have done something mind-bogglingly stupid. Every CSM/RSM I have ever known would have no qualms about uttering such a thing, it is actually quite tame.

At the risk of stating the obvious unless you're the target of racism (or sexism or homophobia or whatever) it's highly likely you won't notice it. It's not like the old days where it was just accepted/tolerated, people have learned to keep their prejudices hidden from those people that might report them. And my guess is she recorded the incidents because she felt most people would respond like you did.

[mick987]

Countdown said:

At the risk of stating the obvious unless you're the target of racism (or sexism or homophobia or whatever) it's highly likely you won't notice it. It's not like the old days where it was just accepted/tolerated, people have learned to keep their prejudices hidden from those people that might report them. And my guess is she recorded the incidents because she felt most people would respond like you did.

Pretty sure the abuse had been going on for a long time before she started recording it.

[Wills2]

Reading that article really boils my piss, we're never going to move on if soldiers like Mrs Knight are treated like that, pathetic, puerile and bullying behaviour from those involved.

[Blue62]

272BHP said:

There isn't a culture like that.

It might happen for sure as there are idiots everywhere. The fact that she recorded conversations makes me think she was not cut out for Army life in the first place. I rarely saw any racist incident in the Army but when it did rear its ugly head it was stamped on so hard the individuals feet never touched the ground.

I don't see anything racist about the "tar and feather" comment either - what was the context? She might have done something mind-bogglingly stupid. Every CSM/RSM I have ever known would have no qualms about uttering such a thing, it is actually quite tame.

Apparently she started to record the conversations after her complaints weren’t taken seriously, that seems like a sensible course of action to me, rather than proof she was a misfit. I don’t know if you’re being serious about the ‘tar and feather’ remark, it could only apply to a person of colour, am I missing something?

[Randy Winkman]

A PHer might come along at some point to tell us that she is actually one of the worst type of racists for drawing attention to racism instead of pretending that it doesn't exist. For real.

[OutInTheShed]

s1962a said:

How can the army expect more people to join up with a culture like that?

They'll just continue to recruit people who fit that culture.

[272BHP]

Blue62 said:

I don’t know if you’re being serious about the ‘tar and feather’ remark, it could only apply to a person of colour, am I missing something?

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

[Sporky]

272BHP said:

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

You know victim blaming isn't a good and noble thing to do, right?

[greygoose]

272BHP said:

Blue62 said:

I don’t know if you’re being serious about the ‘tar and feather’ remark, it could only apply to a person of colour, am I missing something?

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

You sound like part of the problem, why not just say she deserved whatever was said to her even though you claim you didn’t know what it meant?

[ATG]

272BHP said:

I don't see anything racist about the "tar and feather" comment either - what was the context? She might have done something mind-bogglingly stupid. Every CSM/RSM I have ever known would have no qualms about uttering such a thing, it is actually quite tame.

Tarring and feathering has a long and noble history, but in the last century it was a particular favourite of the KKK in the USA.

[Blue62]

272BHP said:

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

I’ve always been under the impression that tar and feathering was used by the KKK, it’s a racist term, at least in modern parlance. The rest of your response is supposition I’m afraid.

[limpsfield]

272BHP said:

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

Given some of the suicides/questionable deaths we have seen in the Army in recent years due to bullying I really do think that is a sweeping, overconfident statement.

e.g.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/04/so...

[SlimJim16v]

ATG said:

Tarring and feathering has a long and noble history, but in the last century it was a particular favourite of the KKK in the USA.

I associate it with the IRA

[911Spanker]

272BHP said:

Blue62 said:

I don’t know if you’re being serious about the ‘tar and feather’ remark, it could only apply to a person of colour, am I missing something?

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

Are we meant to believe this?

[Fatboy]

Blue62 said:

272BHP said:

I have heard of the term since I was a boy many decades ago and it was never associated with people of colour.

Army units are close knit. If she was being abused and unhappy then her fellow soldiers and friends would have either done something about it themselves or demanded action from the chain of command. I can assure you that any SNCO/Officer hearing of any racism would have acted straight away.

If she was recording stuff then it is highly likely people would have known she was doing that as well - one certain way to alienate yourself and become mistrusted.

I’ve always been under the impression that tar and feathering was used by the KKK, it’s a racist term, at least in modern parlance. The rest of your response is supposition I’m afraid.

Tar and feather was used by the IRA in northern Ireland for Catholic girls who had relationships with soldiers... I'd never heard of it under any other context in the UK.

Source: my mum who was a nurse in Belfast royal Victoria hospital in the 70s and they had a procedure to clean the girls up...

[Pebbles167]

Its sad, no one should have to be subjected to this crap. Any individuals involved and commanders turning a blind eye should have been dealt with in the first instance.

It ruins the reputation of an establishment that is racially diverse, and where racism is rare and harshly punished.

[Blue62]

Fatboy said:

Tar and feather was used by the IRA in northern Ireland for Catholic girls who had relationships with soldiers... I'd never heard of it under any other context in the UK.

Source: my mum who was a nurse in Belfast royal Victoria hospital in the 70s and they had a procedure to clean the girls up...

I never knew that, always associated it with the KKK. Thanks

[bitchstewie]

I was expecting it to take a couple of pages before it was the victims fault.

Didn't count on it being the first bloody reply.

Jesus.