Barcelona banning tourist apartments
Discussion
Barcelona are going to stop giving permits that allow people to rent out their flats to tourists. So from 2028 there will no longer be any tourist flats (currently around 10,000) in the city. The aim is to increase available accommodation for residents and drive down prices.
A good idea? Should we also do something similar to increase the supply of housing to residents?
A good idea? Should we also do something similar to increase the supply of housing to residents?
We are just yesterday back from Seville. There really appears to be a current of tourist negativity, not experienced by us before. Middle aged couple doing a few 5 day holidays in Europe. Seville was the most we felt it , poor service, disregard in restaurants etc . Properly in estate agent windows giving prices for residents and non residents.
See how its actually implemented. Bit sceptical, the impact of this would be massive on tourists and the local economy.
But... the idea of licensing and limiting has merit. Wales, Cornwall etc all. Similar noises being made in Mallorca about tourist levels but the reality is without the industry these places would not exist.
But... the idea of licensing and limiting has merit. Wales, Cornwall etc all. Similar noises being made in Mallorca about tourist levels but the reality is without the industry these places would not exist.
21TonyK said:
See how its actually implemented. Bit sceptical, the impact of this would be massive on tourists and the local economy.
But... the idea of licensing and limiting has merit. Wales, Cornwall etc all. Similar noises being made in Mallorca about tourist levels but the reality is without the industry these places would not exist.
But... the idea of licensing and limiting has merit. Wales, Cornwall etc all. Similar noises being made in Mallorca about tourist levels but the reality is without the industry these places would not exist.
Of course they would exist Tony albeit on possibly reduced Income stream .
Air BNB is quite a bit cheaper than hotels so the obvious cost is fewer tourists and therefore less money coming in. However if tourists are willing to pay more than residents then it causes issues with the housing market. I hope they've thought it through and understand the pros and cons.
reddiesel said:
21TonyK said:
See how its actually implemented. Bit sceptical, the impact of this would be massive on tourists and the local economy.
But... the idea of licensing and limiting has merit. Wales, Cornwall etc all. Similar noises being made in Mallorca about tourist levels but the reality is without the industry these places would not exist.
But... the idea of licensing and limiting has merit. Wales, Cornwall etc all. Similar noises being made in Mallorca about tourist levels but the reality is without the industry these places would not exist.
Of course they would exist Tony albeit on possibly reduced Income stream .
Tourism is a double edged sword, I grew up in it and worked in it. Quick to complain but also quick to take the money.
So it's about balance?
Ibiza had stories of police officers having to sleep in cars because they can't afford housing.
I agree with the chap above about apartments / b&b Vs a pair of hotel rooms when you have kids. They're very convenient.
I am fairly centerish politically, and when the market model for allocating resources producues socially bad outcomes then it needs intervention.
I don't agree with the disrespect to (respectful) tourists like ignoring them in restaurants. That is just biting the hand that feeds. However, locals blocking beaches in Majorca is part of the process to galvanize political action.
Ibiza had stories of police officers having to sleep in cars because they can't afford housing.
I agree with the chap above about apartments / b&b Vs a pair of hotel rooms when you have kids. They're very convenient.
I am fairly centerish politically, and when the market model for allocating resources producues socially bad outcomes then it needs intervention.
I don't agree with the disrespect to (respectful) tourists like ignoring them in restaurants. That is just biting the hand that feeds. However, locals blocking beaches in Majorca is part of the process to galvanize political action.
Skeptisk said:
Barcelona are going to stop giving permits that allow people to rent out their flats to tourists.
...
A good idea?
For those normal residents who live in those buildings and get utterly fed up with the constant stream of 'not giving a damn' AirBnB renters it is a dream come true....
A good idea?
Skeptisk said:
Should we also do something similar to increase the supply of housing to residents?
But undoubtably it will do damn all to actually change the availability of property to residents who can't afford to buy anything now.21TonyK said:
Tourism is a double edged sword, I grew up in it and worked in it. Quick to complain but also quick to take the money.
Yep, a tricky one. I grew up in a seaside Devonshire town that was dead in the winter and full of tourists in the summer. The tourists were hated - with many derogatory names for them, but their money was very welcome.Getting the balance right when the majority of your GDP (in Mallorca for example) comes from tourism is far from easy. I suppose the relentless marketing could be stopped - that might be a thought.
Ian Geary said:
So it's about balance?
It is.The issue is with super cheap flights and people able to exercise their disposable income on multiple holidays per year and wanting to keep their costs at destination low... and with the platforms making it easy to sell apartments "by the day"...
... the combination means it is inevitable that the pressures have now hit, even if they were a little delayed by the pandemic.
gazza285 said:
You don’t have to go to Barcelona to see the issues Airbnb causes, Hebden Bridge has a ridiculous problem with rental housing due to the proliferation of them. I personally know of four couples that have received notices to quit, only to see their old homes become an Airbnb.
True.Also Yorkshire Dales and North Norfolk - at least one lender have stopped giving mortgages due to the proliferation of 2nd houses/rentals.
It's mainly an anti Airbnb stance, and one I tend to agree with but Airbnb etc can be positive to some cities. However there does need to laws to limit the number of properties rented out to tourists.
Ultimately somewhere like Athens you used to be able to rent a city centre apartment for €700 a month, but stick it on Airbnb and you will make that in a week. As the trend spreads most places available for rent are now on Airbnb because the income is so much higher. The local wages can only afford €700 a month which pushes most residents out of the city centre, and eventually some are forced out the city completely.
You could also argue that a hotel will employ local staff, pay tax including the tourist tax some countries introduce putting more money into the local economy. On the flip side I have stayed in an Airbnb in Albania which meant the communist apartment was completely refurbished and the cash went to a 'normal' Albanian person rather than a business. Obviously Albania has far less tourists than Greece or Spain etc but the same issue could happen there in 5-10 years.
Ultimately somewhere like Athens you used to be able to rent a city centre apartment for €700 a month, but stick it on Airbnb and you will make that in a week. As the trend spreads most places available for rent are now on Airbnb because the income is so much higher. The local wages can only afford €700 a month which pushes most residents out of the city centre, and eventually some are forced out the city completely.
You could also argue that a hotel will employ local staff, pay tax including the tourist tax some countries introduce putting more money into the local economy. On the flip side I have stayed in an Airbnb in Albania which meant the communist apartment was completely refurbished and the cash went to a 'normal' Albanian person rather than a business. Obviously Albania has far less tourists than Greece or Spain etc but the same issue could happen there in 5-10 years.
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