Millions of men are a danger to women and children...

[biggbn]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/j...

Worrying statistics? I'm sure someone will be along to suggest they are not worrying at all, and in fact it's all the victims and potential victims fault....

[bitchstewie]

I was just reading that and it's very disturbing.

My guess is by the end of the first page men will be the real victims of violence.

[mac96]

Well we can no doubt pick at the stats- eg I was, perhaps wrongly, under the impression that most victims of violence were male- but there is undoubtedly an issue, which is that violent behavior is not taken sufficiently seriously until the violent individual escalates to killing someone.

My Mrs used to be a probation officer and the sentencing of violent men often seemed very soft. Even in cases where they could easily have killed, but they and the victim were lucky and the victim made a full recovery .

[2fast748]

I know a female domestic violence victim and a male one but that probably doesn't represent the national average. I think a lot of bad stuff goes on behind closed doors and the more it is discussed out in the open the better it is for all victims.

[Gecko1978]

4million wow so 70m people 35m men so 13% of men. That would tie with anecdoteso from women I know. Sad really

[OutInTheShed]

biggbn said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/j...

Worrying statistics? I'm sure someone will be along to suggest they are not worrying at all, and in fact it's all the victims and potential victims fault....

The Grauniad is always a worry when anything involves numbers.

1 in 10 people are 'victims'?
He relied on an upcoming study produced for police chiefs nationally that says there are up to 4 million perpetrators of violence against women and children, who are mainly men, with one in 10 people being victims, who are mainly women or children.

Recorded crimes of violence are about 1 million? (annually)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

So there must be a vast amount of unreported crime? Or do these violent blokes only offend on average once every four years?

Or do the "one in 10 people being victims" include everyone who got slapped in a playground scuffle at junior school?

[ChocolateFrog]

I make that around 1 in 6 men perpetrating violence against women and children.

Seems a bit high.

[ChocolateFrog]

Gecko1978 said:

4million wow so 70m people 35m men so 13% of men. That would tie with anecdoteso from women I know. Sad really

More like 26 million men once you've taken the U18's out.

[BikeBikeBIke]

OutInTheShed said:

biggbn said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/j...

Worrying statistics? I'm sure someone will be along to suggest they are not worrying at all, and in fact it's all the victims and potential victims fault....

The Grauniad is always a worry when anything involves numbers.

1 in 10 people are 'victims'?
He relied on an upcoming study produced for police chiefs nationally that says there are up to 4 million perpetrators of violence against women and children, who are mainly men, with one in 10 people being victims, who are mainly women or children.

Recorded crimes of violence are about 1 million? (annually)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

So there must be a vast amount of unreported crime? Or do these violent blokes only offend on average once every four years?

Or do the "one in 10 people being victims" include everyone who got slapped in a playground scuffle at junior school?

I hope "More or Less" cover this.

[Biggy Stardust]

It's "up to" 4 million perpetrators. Not 4 million, just "up to" that number, which might well be a significantly smaller figure.

[biggbn]

OutInTheShed said:

biggbn said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/j...

Worrying statistics? I'm sure someone will be along to suggest they are not worrying at all, and in fact it's all the victims and potential victims fault....

The Grauniad is always a worry when anything involves numbers.

1 in 10 people are 'victims'?
He relied on an upcoming study produced for police chiefs nationally that says there are up to 4 million perpetrators of violence against women and children, who are mainly men, with one in 10 people being victims, who are mainly women or children.

Recorded crimes of violence are about 1 million? (annually)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

So there must be a vast amount of unreported crime? Or do these violent blokes only offend on average once every four years?

Or do the "one in 10 people being victims" include everyone who got slapped in a playground scuffle at junior school?

Not the Guardian's survey, one commissioned for police chiefs and described as eye watering by Met chief. Go argue with the police, not the Guardian for reporting it.

[Biggy Stardust]

ChocolateFrog said:

Gecko1978 said:

4million wow so 70m people 35m men so 13% of men. That would tie with anecdoteso from women I know. Sad really

More like 26 million men once you've taken the U18's out.

Let's take out the OAPs & the disabled to leave less than 20 million. They think "up to" 1 in 4 men is an abuser? I'm curious whether they have real evidence or just speculative figures.

[irc]

On the other hand another reputable survey found that men were more likely to be victims of violence and the prevalence was far lower - 2.2% of men and 1.6% of men had been victims in the previous year.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

Sounds plausible to me. Living in and around a violent city - Glasgow - in the last 40 years only 3 close family or friends have been victims of violence. Two of the three cases resulted in jail time for the offenders.

Edited by irc on Tuesday 4th June 20:12

[biggbn]

irc said:

On the other hand another reputable survey found that men were more likely to be victims of violence and the prevalence was far lower - 2.2% of men and 1.6% of men had been victims in the previous year.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

Same reputable survey that says, in the very bit you quote

'although this measure likely underestimates the number of female victims (see Section 10)'?

[Cold]

And yet attacks on women by bears in the UK are at an all time low. It all makes sense now.

[irc]

biggbn said:

Same reputable survey that says, in the very bit you quote

'although this measure likely underestimates the number of female victims (see Section 10)'?

Add 50% to the female numbers it is still similar to males and a low number compared to the Guardian story.

And it's from published research not a few comments on unpublished research

Edited by irc on Tuesday 4th June 20:19

[biggbn]

irc said:

biggbn said:

Same reputable survey that says, in the very bit you quote

'although this measure likely underestimates the number of female victims (see Section 10)'?

Add 50% to the female numbers it is still similar to males and a low number compared to the Guardian story.

Again, why this fixation on the Guardian. From the article....

'The figure of 4 million, mainly male, offenders comes from research to be published later this year that was commissioned by the National Police Chiefs’ Council. It was discussed recently at the government’s national policing board.

Rowley, in his written report ahead of Tuesday’s meeting, said: “National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) analysis at the recent National Policing Board suggests that one in 10 people in England and Wales are a victim of VAWG [violence against women and girls], with around four million (approximately one in 15) people being perpetrators.”

Other data shows that 800,000 women a year are sexually assaulted, there are 1 million domestic violence reports a year, and the National Crime Agency estimates that 750,000 adults have a sexual interest in children'

The article was not commissioned by the Guardian, they are reporting Rowley's comments.

For clarity, I'm actually not believing either survey is 100% accurate just because they are 'official' but both seem to point to an alarming fact, we live in a violent society and that the consequences for violence seem rather, erm, inconsequential, and it is rather shocking hearing such a senior policeman apparently endorsing suggested stats.

Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 4th June 20:23

Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 4th June 20:34

Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 4th June 20:41

[Pebbles167]

A couple of years back a guy my age who I worked and got on well with with from another company was caught by a police officer disguising themselves as a child on a forum. I saw the language that was used and I was totally disgusted, particularly since he had a daughter of his own the same age as the supposed child in question. I'd have not believed it had I not seen the news article.

I was reminded of about a decade ago when the paedophile hunter groups were in the spotlight. What was often apparent was that many of the men caught out didn't fit any particular stereotype and often seemed like absolutely normal people of any age, capable of coherent speech and polite interaction. I guess many otherwise amicable men too simply won't be able to do the right thing when the situation arises, and instead take advantage of a woman.

I don't know if it's an education thing from young age, somewhat instinctive or having unhealthy influences, but I believe the figures suggested and am ashamed that more can't resist their urges. Sad.

[Panamax]

Cold said:

And yet attacks on women by bears in the UK are at an all time low. It all makes sense now.

And men are nearly twice as likely to die by suicide as women, presumably because women drive them to it...

[mac96]

I have known a couple of people who had an unhealthy interest in children; one was a work contact, and to say I was surprised when I read about his conviction for downloading indecent images would be an understatement. Even with hindsight it still seems very odd. The other was a priest, who as far as I know was never convicted of anything, just moved by the Church, and I was less surprised about him.

Still, whatever the exact numbers, it is clear that violence is for many people normalised, whether as perpetrator or as victim. It's understandable that the Police are saying that it is not a problem that they alone can solve, it needs wide changes in attitude.