Who's have thunk it? UC recipient bank account access trail

[poo at Paul's]

Unsurprisingly, a trial to get limited access to bank accounts for Universal credit recipients has found tens of thousands of people do not qualify for it. c.8% of accounts reviewed, with average monthly balances of £50k, the limit for claiming being £16k or less in savings.

link should be to story in the Mirror.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/dwp-finds-63...

[blue_haddock]

So many people in some disability groups moaning about this being an attack on their civil liberties but as this has shown, there is a great deal of people committing fraud and claiming despite not being eligible.

[119]

Excellent and about time.

Now, the chances of getting it back will be non existent i suspect, but at least it can be stopped.

[Tankrizzo]

When I saw that the checks incorporated not only UC but also pension credit, I thought yup it's gonna be pensioners with tons of money in the account still claiming pension credit accounting for this. I reckon a lot of us know older people who fall into this. Even my own grandmother did at one point, too much money in the account to qualify for PC.

The figures are somewhat vague in the article.

article said:

Of the 713,000 accounts checked, 58% belonged to Universal Credit claimants, 22% to people on ESA, and the remaining 20% to Pension Credit recipients.

But all that says is that the majority of those checked were UC claimants, not a majority of the violations. Unless I've missed something, the only data about the violation split is:

article said:

Over a three-month period, it found that 60,000 - or 8% - of these accounts had balances exceeding the limit for entitlement to benefits.

Just anecdotally I reckon it's mostly Pension Credit falling into this. Happy to be proved wrong though!

Edited by Tankrizzo on Monday 20th May 12:19

[Countdown]

I wonder if the Government will introduce checking of ALL bank accounts and compare against tax returns

[Biggy Stardust]

Countdown said:

I wonder if the Government will introduce checking of ALL bank accounts and compare against tax returns

Those asking for money might have to surrender some privacy; those of us paying in shouldn't be subject to the same level of snooping unless there's reasonable suspicion of naughtiness.

[Countdown]

Biggy Stardust said:

Countdown said:

I wonder if the Government will introduce checking of ALL bank accounts and compare against tax returns

Those asking for money might have to surrender some privacy; those of us paying in shouldn't be subject to the same level of snooping unless there's reasonable suspicion of naughtiness.

Benefit fraud and tax evasion are both criminal offences. They both have the same effect on taxpayers.

[Who_Goes_Blue]

Countdown said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Countdown said:

I wonder if the Government will introduce checking of ALL bank accounts and compare against tax returns

Those asking for money might have to surrender some privacy; those of us paying in shouldn't be subject to the same level of snooping unless there's reasonable suspicion of naughtiness.

Benefit fraud and tax evasion are both criminal offences. They both have the same effect on taxpayers.

You`re right, these people are probably also buying hooky fags and paying "in cash" for stuff.

[matrignano]

poo at Paul's said:

Unsurprisingly, a trial to get limited access to bank accounts for Universal credit recipients has found tens of thousands of people do not qualify for it. c.8% of accounts reviewed, with average monthly balances of £50k, the limit for claiming being £16k or less in savings.

link should be to story in the Mirror.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/dwp-finds-63...

£16k is fk all, especially if you're someone who's worked hard/a long time, managed to buy a home with a mortgage and are therefore not eligible to have your housing paid for you.

Particularly in London where mortgages and living costs are high, it would be quite easy to burn through £16k in less than 6 months. All this for a meager £380 a month UC payment which, let's be honest, doesn't really make a dent.

I am in this situation now and I am quite peeved off that I have paid hundreds of thousands in tax and the best I can get is £380 a month.

Other European countries pay a decent proportion of your last salary for up to 12 months, which is much fairer as you get back a fairer chunk of what you have paid in through the years.

[pork911]

Biggy Stardust said:

Countdown said:

I wonder if the Government will introduce checking of ALL bank accounts and compare against tax returns

Those asking for money might have to surrender some privacy; those of us paying in shouldn't be subject to the same level of snooping unless there's reasonable suspicion of naughtiness.

Child benefit then

And anyway incorrect tax returns are not different in kind from incorrect benefit claims.

[Biggy Stardust]

Countdown said:

Benefit fraud and tax evasion are both criminal offences. They both have the same effect on taxpayers.

Nevertheless those quietly minding their own business & not asking for money shouldn't be subject to as much scrutiny as those asking for handouts unless there's good reason to suspect naughtiness.

[pork911]

Biggy Stardust said:

Countdown said:

Benefit fraud and tax evasion are both criminal offences. They both have the same effect on taxpayers.

Nevertheless those quietly minding their own business & not asking for money shouldn't be subject to as much scrutiny as those asking for handouts unless there's good reason to suspect naughtiness.

They are asking to retain a certain amount of their money (which might mean an invalid loss to the treasury far in excess of any benefit claims). So why the need for suspicion there?

[JagLover]

Countdown said:

I wonder if the Government will introduce checking of ALL bank accounts and compare against tax returns

There are already automatic checks on tax payers.

https://www.krestonreeves.com/news/taxpayer-data-n...

[poo at Paul's]

matrignano said:

£16k is fk all, especially if you're someone who's worked hard/a long time, managed to buy a home with a mortgage and are therefore not eligible to have your housing paid for you.

Don't necessarily disagree, (and it has been £16k for an awfully long time, too), but the law is the law, spend from your savings to get below £16k, then let the taxpayer step in.

I know people on UC pension credit who are saving £500 a month away, that is fundamentally wrong, and of course, after 32 weeks, illegal.
I also know families who graft and have household incomes of £100k to £140k who don't have a pot to piss in, and who'd love to have £16k in savings.

[Gecko1978]

pork911 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Countdown said:

Benefit fraud and tax evasion are both criminal offences. They both have the same effect on taxpayers.

Nevertheless those quietly minding their own business & not asking for money shouldn't be subject to as much scrutiny as those asking for handouts unless there's good reason to suspect naughtiness.

They are asking to retain a certain amount of their money (which might mean an invalid loss to the treasury far in excess of any benefit claims). So why the need for suspicion there?

It's the their money bit where the difference lies. Doesn't make it right but also not the same

[Rivenink]

Biggy Stardust said:

Countdown said:

Benefit fraud and tax evasion are both criminal offences. They both have the same effect on taxpayers.

Nevertheless those quietly minding their own business & not asking for money shouldn't be subject to as much scrutiny as those asking for handouts unless there's good reason to suspect naughtiness.

So, it's fine to commit a crime as long as you mind your own business and don't ask for money ???

[Biggy Stardust]

Rivenink said:

So, it's fine to commit a crime as long as you mind your own business and don't ask for money ???

I didn't suggest anything whatsoever about committing crime- I suggested that those quietly minding their own business should have a greater right to privacy than those asking for handouts.

[Rivenink]

Biggy Stardust said:

Rivenink said:

So, it's fine to commit a crime as long as you mind your own business and don't ask for money ???

I didn't suggest anything whatsoever about committing crime- I suggested that those quietly minding their own business should have a greater right to privacy than those asking for handouts.

Include the whole quote, so that context is provided.

[119]

Biggy Stardust said:

Rivenink said:

So, it's fine to commit a crime as long as you mind your own business and don't ask for money ???

I didn't suggest anything whatsoever about committing crime- I suggested that those quietly minding their own business should have a greater right to privacy than those asking for handouts.

Why should they?

With a c£32bn black hole, it ain't all benefits 'cheats'.

[matrignano]

poo at Paul's said:

, spend from your savings to get below £16k, then let the taxpayer step in.

Step in to the tune of £380 a month for a working age single person… which means homelessness quite quickly?