Is Britain still culturally Christian?
Discussion
I saw a video recently with Richard Dawkins saying that despite his atheism he sees himself as culturally Christian and that he thought it was important for the UK.
I am a bit conflicted as I am a staunch atheist myself but I do see where he is coming from. Christianity is woven deeply into our cultural heritage: it would be difficult to understand much of our literature without knowing about it and so many of our holidays and celebrations have a religious background (even if fewer and fewer people believe).
Christianity is part of what makes Europe, Europe, and not the rest of the world. It is part of our shared heritage and underpins a lot of culture. Conversely our current culture has also been shaped by previous generations attempts to cast off some aspects of Christianity and religion in general (forcing Christianity to change).
I am fairly confident that one of the key reasons that I felt at home living in Switzerland, Germany and now Denmark is because of that shared cultural heritage. It might be in my imagination but I don’t feel a foreigner here like I do when I’ve visited India, China or Japan.
Given that the number of practicing Christians is in free fall in the U.K., does it matter that we remain culturally Christian? Is it even possible?
I am a bit conflicted as I am a staunch atheist myself but I do see where he is coming from. Christianity is woven deeply into our cultural heritage: it would be difficult to understand much of our literature without knowing about it and so many of our holidays and celebrations have a religious background (even if fewer and fewer people believe).
Christianity is part of what makes Europe, Europe, and not the rest of the world. It is part of our shared heritage and underpins a lot of culture. Conversely our current culture has also been shaped by previous generations attempts to cast off some aspects of Christianity and religion in general (forcing Christianity to change).
I am fairly confident that one of the key reasons that I felt at home living in Switzerland, Germany and now Denmark is because of that shared cultural heritage. It might be in my imagination but I don’t feel a foreigner here like I do when I’ve visited India, China or Japan.
Given that the number of practicing Christians is in free fall in the U.K., does it matter that we remain culturally Christian? Is it even possible?
No.
Incredibly few people are wilful, practicing Christians. Churches are closing all over the place. Congregation demographics are skewed toward much older people.
Other religions continue to grow in the UK, but again a mix of practicing and cultural activity.
To answer the cultural question, the influence of Christianity in Christmas, Easter and the Armed Forces is continuing to diminish as they become consumer holidays and a more socially adjusted armed forces.
Incredibly few people are wilful, practicing Christians. Churches are closing all over the place. Congregation demographics are skewed toward much older people.
Other religions continue to grow in the UK, but again a mix of practicing and cultural activity.
To answer the cultural question, the influence of Christianity in Christmas, Easter and the Armed Forces is continuing to diminish as they become consumer holidays and a more socially adjusted armed forces.
Edited by Evanivitch on Sunday 7th April 07:56
I think it's arguable that England, in particular, has never been culturally Christian.
Essentially we're a bunch of pagan savages shivering, getting pissed and fighting each on a cold wet lump of rock. Had a brief dalliance with Catholicism; that got diluted by Henry VIII becuase he wanted to get his end away with a new wife; the serious religious zealots left for North America leaving us to carry on as before.
Essentially we're a bunch of pagan savages shivering, getting pissed and fighting each on a cold wet lump of rock. Had a brief dalliance with Catholicism; that got diluted by Henry VIII becuase he wanted to get his end away with a new wife; the serious religious zealots left for North America leaving us to carry on as before.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: When it suits.
When most of us don't go to church or consider Easter and Christmas to be about eggs and Christmas presents that's absolutely fine.
Once a few mosques start springing up suddenly a certain section of society are very vocal that we're a Christian country.
What is the correct religious behaviour you have to show before you can make the claim we are culturally Christian?When most of us don't go to church or consider Easter and Christmas to be about eggs and Christmas presents that's absolutely fine.
Once a few mosques start springing up suddenly a certain section of society are very vocal that we're a Christian country.
ChocolateFrog said:
It does make sense.
I'm as atheist as they come but still scoff down a few Easter Eggs because some dude faked his own death and eat too much Turkey and stuffing because for some other reason (Jesus's birthday?).
Easter and Christmas are pagan festivals celebrating Spring/Equinox - hence eggs and bunnies (hares originally) and the Winter Solstice/Yuletide respectively. The Christmas tree stuff we imported from Germany in Victorian times is pre Christian Green Man/forest worship stuff.I'm as atheist as they come but still scoff down a few Easter Eggs because some dude faked his own death and eat too much Turkey and stuffing because for some other reason (Jesus's birthday?).
Christians arbitrarily attached worship to existing rites/feasting.
It’s an interesting question, and I think I agree with the Dawkins’ sentiment the OP describes (again as an atheist), but if we remain culturally Christian, I suspect it’s no longer by any great margin, which probably is feeding a lot of the more fear-driven nationalist nonsense going on.
Think the last couple of national census exercises tried to capture faith identity data; be interesting to compare whatever that shows with the consensus here , if one emerges.
Think the last couple of national census exercises tried to capture faith identity data; be interesting to compare whatever that shows with the consensus here , if one emerges.
NerveAgent said:
What is the correct religious behaviour you have to show before you can make the claim we are culturally Christian?
Honestly I have no idea.We seem to get more upset at other people being demonstrably religious than we are interested in being demonstrably religious unless we think we can use it as a stick to beat people with.
When's the last time anyone on this thread did something they'd consider "culturally Christian"?
That's my point.
hidetheelephants said:
Western europe is slightly different flavours of judeo-christian, not surprising you feel mostly at home. Even eastern europe is likely to feel similar, orthodox is not a million miles from catholicism, just different mumbojumbo.
That's because the Catholic church grew out of the orthodox church. Most people do not know the orthodox church was the original Christian church of which the church of Rome was one branch. The branches had significant disputes which lead to the Great Schism.On the point of culture, I’d suggest it’s much more than religion.
Perhaps modern societies based on post Roman Empire / Renaissance Europe ?
(With a sprinkling of imperialism).
Do you feel any affinity with the largely Christian countries in South America, (Eastern Europe (Russia) or Africa (Angola, Rwanda) etc
Perhaps modern societies based on post Roman Empire / Renaissance Europe ?
(With a sprinkling of imperialism).
Do you feel any affinity with the largely Christian countries in South America, (Eastern Europe (Russia) or Africa (Angola, Rwanda) etc
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Honestly I have no idea.
We seem to get more upset at other people being demonstrably religious than we are interested in being demonstrably religious unless we think we can use it as a stick to beat people with.
When's the last time anyone on this thread did something they'd consider "culturally Christian"?
That's my point.
That seems like a strange thought process, who is “we”? Millions have been impacted in the name of religion. Of course they might have an opinion, despite not aligning themselves with a religion. We seem to get more upset at other people being demonstrably religious than we are interested in being demonstrably religious unless we think we can use it as a stick to beat people with.
When's the last time anyone on this thread did something they'd consider "culturally Christian"?
That's my point.
NerveAgent said:
That seems like a strange thought process, who is “we”? Millions have been impacted in the name of religion. Of course they might have an opinion, despite not aligning themselves with a religion.
People who whip out the "our Christian culture" card when it suits.Like I said what stuff do they do that they consider is part of that "Christian culture"?
I should have said "they" rather than "we" and perhaps I'm doing them a grave injustice and they're off to church right now but it's that sort of thing where it seems some people are Christian when it suits them.
hidetheelephants said:
Evanivitch said:
oddman said:
I think it's arguable that England, in particular, has never been culturally Christian.
Public Holidays, monarchy, lords spiritual...Our greatest writer barely touches religion (perhaps because in Tudor times writing down an opinion on religion was an occupational hazard)
I think language, liberalism, pragmatism, humour and suspicion of ideology and religion are far greater features of our national character and culture than christianity.
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