WASPI women pensions
Discussion
I understand their argument but the world has changed.
People live a lot longer. The country can not afford the state pension as it stands.
Sorry but men have shorter life’s but women expect to retire earlier?
The women in this case may have a complaint about poor communication but it was not hidden. I remember the publicity at the time.
What’s the group thoughts on this?
People live a lot longer. The country can not afford the state pension as it stands.
Sorry but men have shorter life’s but women expect to retire earlier?
The women in this case may have a complaint about poor communication but it was not hidden. I remember the publicity at the time.
What’s the group thoughts on this?
The government is crap at notofying these changes. I had no idea I was having all my child benefit clawed back through through my tax return. I couldn't understand why my investments had suddenly stopped making any money until it twigged.
Nobody wrote to me and said "As of today child benefit will be a short term loan that you repay."
So sorry. Suck it up. Nobody gets advance warning of these changes and nobody else gets compensated.
As an aside anyone who is relying on the state for something as important a pension since the 90s needs their head read. The Govt helped themselves to a chunk of my privare pension in the 90's and I'm damn sure they will do the same with my state pension any time they want. These women will have been more aware of that than me.
Nobody wrote to me and said "As of today child benefit will be a short term loan that you repay."
So sorry. Suck it up. Nobody gets advance warning of these changes and nobody else gets compensated.
As an aside anyone who is relying on the state for something as important a pension since the 90s needs their head read. The Govt helped themselves to a chunk of my privare pension in the 90's and I'm damn sure they will do the same with my state pension any time they want. These women will have been more aware of that than me.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 22 March 07:04
Their argument isn’t that the government shouldn’t have raised the pension age to be in line with men, but that it was not clearly communicated to the women affected so that they could plan accordingly.
As a result many only found out when very close to retirement, though in a lot of cases the only option would have been “carry on working” anyway.
As a result many only found out when very close to retirement, though in a lot of cases the only option would have been “carry on working” anyway.
lrdisco said:
I understand their argument but the world has changed.
People live a lot longer. The country can not afford the state pension as it stands.
Sorry but men have shorter life’s but women expect to retire earlier?
The women in this case may have a complaint about poor communication but it was not hidden. I remember the publicity at the time.
What’s the group thoughts on this?
You don’t understand their argument then.People live a lot longer. The country can not afford the state pension as it stands.
Sorry but men have shorter life’s but women expect to retire earlier?
The women in this case may have a complaint about poor communication but it was not hidden. I remember the publicity at the time.
What’s the group thoughts on this?
They are not arguing or campaigning for a reversal of state pension age changes, they accept the rightfulness and need for equal retirement ages for men and women.
Their campaign concerns the face (the ombudsman found this to be the case) that they were not properly informed of changes to their state pension age.
I.e. nobody wrote to them to tell that it was changing.
The change was made in 1995 by the government, to come into effect in 15-20 years, precisely so those affected had time to accomodate then change in any retirement plans.
Unfortunately the DWP didn’t write to anyone to tell them their state pension sage was changing until 2012. Even though they knew from 2006 that most women affected were unaware of the change.
There was a fair bit of communication
That in any case excludes personal responsibility of knowing when you are entitled to the state pension. You can do this by a simple search, or request a pension statement from the DWP.
Apparently 11.5 million state pension statements have been issued on request since April 2000 and this included the date at which the person would reach pension age.
How does everyone on this thread, presumably, know when they are due to receive the state pension if it is difficult to find out?
That in any case excludes personal responsibility of knowing when you are entitled to the state pension. You can do this by a simple search, or request a pension statement from the DWP.
Apparently 11.5 million state pension statements have been issued on request since April 2000 and this included the date at which the person would reach pension age.
How does everyone on this thread, presumably, know when they are due to receive the state pension if it is difficult to find out?
PlywoodPascal said:
You don’t understand their argument then.
They are not arguing or campaigning for a reversal of state pension age changes, they accept the rightfulness and need for equal retirement ages for men and women.
Their campaign concerns the face (the ombudsman found this to be the case) that they were not properly informed of changes to their state pension age.
I.e. nobody wrote to them to tell that it was changing.
The change was made in 1995 by the government, to come into effect in 15-20 years, precisely so those affected had time to accomodate then change in any retirement plans.
Unfortunately the DWP didn’t write to anyone to tell them their state pension sage was changing until 2012. Even though they knew from 2006 that most women affected were unaware of the change.
I don't believe that none of them checked the retirement age for 20 years. Plus it was all over the news for years.They are not arguing or campaigning for a reversal of state pension age changes, they accept the rightfulness and need for equal retirement ages for men and women.
Their campaign concerns the face (the ombudsman found this to be the case) that they were not properly informed of changes to their state pension age.
I.e. nobody wrote to them to tell that it was changing.
The change was made in 1995 by the government, to come into effect in 15-20 years, precisely so those affected had time to accomodate then change in any retirement plans.
Unfortunately the DWP didn’t write to anyone to tell them their state pension sage was changing until 2012. Even though they knew from 2006 that most women affected were unaware of the change.
Nobody wrote to me to explain how smart motorways work I still get a fine if don't obey the signs.
Stuff changes and (rightly or wrongly) it's up to us to keep abreast of changes.
A very tiny number of people were impacted by the poor communication, for example people did calculations based on retirement at 55 and getting a state pension at 60, and doing so only to find out at 59 they were not able to. Level of sympathy there depends on how much you think people should be responsible for themselves. Given the relatively small amount each, whilst the DWP have been criticised the tribunal clearly thinks the impact is small. Less than 3 months pension payments.
Lots more people are moaning that they want money. See all the news articles about people who can’t work because of ill health and have struggled. Lots more entitled people who should have checked with their pension provider before handing in their notice.
Lots more people are moaning that they want money. See all the news articles about people who can’t work because of ill health and have struggled. Lots more entitled people who should have checked with their pension provider before handing in their notice.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 22 March 07:23
There are women who quit jobs and ended their careers at e.g. 58 to care for people, expecting to be able to manage ok till 60 when their pension started, not knowing (because they were not told) they wouldn’t receive their pension until 65.
There are people who had to sell their houses because of the shortfall.
Imagine if you were given just 2 year’s notice of big changes to your retirement arrangements. You would very likely have made choices that are in retrospect sub-optimal and, having made decisions in the absence of material facts because nobody told you about them, you would have a strong argument that you are now impoverished because had you known about the changes you would have made different retirement planning arrangements. Imagine, when you complained that you were not given notice of the changes that you got told ‘oh, but we put some posters about it on bus stops and some telly adverts ran during coronation street in 1996’.
It is right to be frustrated that the DWP has been run so ineffectively and poorly that they have caused harm to so many (4 million) women. It is right to be alarmed that compensation for those affected must come from public funds. Anger about that is very understandable. But it’s not right to pretend that what was done to this generation of women was ok, was ‘normal’ or fits our expected standard of governance, or to say ‘just suck it up’.
There are people who had to sell their houses because of the shortfall.
Imagine if you were given just 2 year’s notice of big changes to your retirement arrangements. You would very likely have made choices that are in retrospect sub-optimal and, having made decisions in the absence of material facts because nobody told you about them, you would have a strong argument that you are now impoverished because had you known about the changes you would have made different retirement planning arrangements. Imagine, when you complained that you were not given notice of the changes that you got told ‘oh, but we put some posters about it on bus stops and some telly adverts ran during coronation street in 1996’.
It is right to be frustrated that the DWP has been run so ineffectively and poorly that they have caused harm to so many (4 million) women. It is right to be alarmed that compensation for those affected must come from public funds. Anger about that is very understandable. But it’s not right to pretend that what was done to this generation of women was ok, was ‘normal’ or fits our expected standard of governance, or to say ‘just suck it up’.
Just read the ombudsman’s report if you want to know what communications were sent.
The major failing is that the DWP became aware in 2006 that those affected were largely not aware, determined that solution was to write directly to those affected, and then didn’t do anything until 2012.
The major failing is that the DWP became aware in 2006 that those affected were largely not aware, determined that solution was to write directly to those affected, and then didn’t do anything until 2012.
PlywoodPascal said:
It is right to be frustrated that the DWP has been run so ineffectively and poorly that they have caused harm to so many (4 million) women.
Even IF the DWP hadn't communicated this sufficiently they have not harmed 4 million women as the vast majority of them would have been well aware of the new pension age, just as those of us who will now retire at 66 and 67 (which was not the case when I started in work) are well aware of the change. You are also removing any element of personal responsibility from the small minority who had somehow remained ignorant of establishing for themselves when they could retire.
I knew about the change and it did not affect me. My wife was aware of the changes despite them having little affect on her.
There is talk of £billions in compensation and it has been compared to the crimes of the Post Office and the victims of the infected blood but I think the connection is flimsy at best. Did they all not know of the changes?
I have sympathy with the plight of those who did not know or understand the implications, but it was all over all media in 2019.
On the other hand, they'll be kept waiting for any compensation, like the Post Office victims. I have a relative whose father died of infected blood transfusions and is still waiting for compensation. I was pension was underpaid and despite a court saying I, and thousands of others, had been underpaid, we were not paid out for seven years. We expected nothing more. I'd suggest these people should not count the days.
There is talk of £billions in compensation and it has been compared to the crimes of the Post Office and the victims of the infected blood but I think the connection is flimsy at best. Did they all not know of the changes?
I have sympathy with the plight of those who did not know or understand the implications, but it was all over all media in 2019.
On the other hand, they'll be kept waiting for any compensation, like the Post Office victims. I have a relative whose father died of infected blood transfusions and is still waiting for compensation. I was pension was underpaid and despite a court saying I, and thousands of others, had been underpaid, we were not paid out for seven years. We expected nothing more. I'd suggest these people should not count the days.
ChocolateFrog said:
Well I think they got shafted.
It was pretty short notice to tell some of them that they're going to be £50k down and it's essentially too late to do anything about it other than carry on working.
In a world of supposed sexual equality it was ridiculous women (who statistically live longer) had such a significant and unjustifiable benefit over male equivalents.It was pretty short notice to tell some of them that they're going to be £50k down and it's essentially too late to do anything about it other than carry on working.
When I started investing in to my private pension it was on the basis it would be available aged 50, then in 2010 it was changed to 55, now 57
The government has just slashed capital gains + changed the tax status on FHL with effect from next April, both affect many, no notice.
This stuff happens.
JagLover said:
Even IF the DWP hadn't communicated this sufficiently they have not harmed 4 million women as the vast majority of them would have been well aware of the new pension age, just as those of us who will now retire at 66 and 67 (which was not the case when I started in work) are well aware of the change.
You are also removing any element of personal responsibility from the small minority who had somehow remained ignorant of establishing for themselves when they could retire.
Your post makes little sense because IF the DWP had not communicated sufficiently, the vast majority of women could not know about their new pension age, You are also removing any element of personal responsibility from the small minority who had somehow remained ignorant of establishing for themselves when they could retire.
The data from the DWP from 2006 showed that most women were not aware, I.e. the public information campaigns were not achieving the desired result. The DWP had a responsibility to make sure people were informed, they did not do so.
Re personal responsibility, are you suggesting that there is something like a public or personal duty to pay attention to advertising and that not to do so is irresponsible?
PlywoodPascal said:
Re personal responsibility, are you suggesting that there is something like a public or personal duty to pay attention to advertising and that not to do so is irresponsible?
If by paying attention to advertising you mean remain aware of changes to the state pension age if you're depending on it, then yes. 100pc.They had notice, the following generations are having to work even longer to get a pension and ultimately as today’s taxpayers need to fund this.
I’m sure a few genuinely didn’t understand or receive the message, but frankly that generation has had the best of everything, well paid low qualified jobs (many with final salary pensions), free education and student grants, peak NHS funding, earlier retirement, easy access to the housing ladder by buying ex council properties etc.
Those born on the 60’s ended up with 15% interest rates, Thatcher era job and pay erosion, and by the time you get to 80’s kids the housing market has went bananas, there is no social housing and they have massive student loans.
It’s hard to sympathise.
I’m sure a few genuinely didn’t understand or receive the message, but frankly that generation has had the best of everything, well paid low qualified jobs (many with final salary pensions), free education and student grants, peak NHS funding, earlier retirement, easy access to the housing ladder by buying ex council properties etc.
Those born on the 60’s ended up with 15% interest rates, Thatcher era job and pay erosion, and by the time you get to 80’s kids the housing market has went bananas, there is no social housing and they have massive student loans.
It’s hard to sympathise.
PlywoodPascal said:
Your post makes little sense because IF the DWP had not communicated sufficiently, the vast majority of women could not know about their new pension age,
The data from the DWP from 2006 showed that most women were not aware, I.e. the public information campaigns were not achieving the desired result. The DWP had a responsibility to make sure people were informed, they did not do so.
Re personal responsibility, are you suggesting that there is something like a public or personal duty to pay attention to advertising and that not to do so is irresponsible?
Data from 2006, before much media reporting on the issue and people researching things for themselves as they approached retirement age.The data from the DWP from 2006 showed that most women were not aware, I.e. the public information campaigns were not achieving the desired result. The DWP had a responsibility to make sure people were informed, they did not do so.
Re personal responsibility, are you suggesting that there is something like a public or personal duty to pay attention to advertising and that not to do so is irresponsible?
I haven't received any official correspondence on my own retirement age so by your logic I don't know it.
Or maybe I have read one of the many news articles or used freely available sites like this
https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-age
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