Discussion
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tech/why-us-ban-ti...
I very much doubt it'll actually get banned, but am surprised at how quickly the house voted against TikTok, whereas they have been in paralysis otherwise. Freedom of speech can't be too free.
I suspect most PHers are of the demographic where Facebook is pretty much their extent of social media, so maybe this doesn't seem like a big deal.
I very much doubt it'll actually get banned, but am surprised at how quickly the house voted against TikTok, whereas they have been in paralysis otherwise. Freedom of speech can't be too free.
I suspect most PHers are of the demographic where Facebook is pretty much their extent of social media, so maybe this doesn't seem like a big deal.
gamefreaks said:
So....we have Chineese people using VPNs to access American sites and American's using VPNs to access Chineese sites.
A tangled web we weave.
Apparently TikTok already have all US content already on US soil, and it's adminstered by Oracle.A tangled web we weave.
https://time.com/6281946/tiktok-oracle-source-code...
I suspect this is more about curtailing free speech and controlling the media than anything China related.
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
This. I'm increasingly sur eit's a (seemingly very successful) attempt by China to reduce the collective IQ of impressionable western teenagers. I'm amazed at some of the utter drivel people will happily spend hours watching on there (but never anything longer than 30 seconds at a time, the attention span can't handle that)MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
I was thinking the same. Old(ish) fogey that I am I do worry about the influence of social media on peoples mental health, especially on the age ranges targeted by Tik Tok et al. So while I'm normally concerned on anything around censorship and limitation of freedoms, this might actually be worth it. I suspect there is not a lot of serious discourse being lost anyway.ChemicalChaos said:
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
This. I'm increasingly sur eit's a (seemingly very successful) attempt by China to reduce the collective IQ of impressionable western teenagers. I'm amazed at some of the utter drivel people will happily spend hours watching on there (but never anything longer than 30 seconds at a time, the attention span can't handle that)MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
Banning something because you don’t like it is a slippery slope. Also see ICE car bans, can’t be in favour of one but not the other. In any case the algorithm serves up what you engage with. Engage with rubbish get rubbish.
bstb3 said:
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
I was thinking the same. Old(ish) fogey that I am I do worry about the influence of social media on peoples mental health, especially on the age ranges targeted by Tik Tok et al. So while I'm normally concerned on anything around censorship and limitation of freedoms, this might actually be worth it. I suspect there is not a lot of serious discourse being lost anyway.I appreciate some parts of Social Media are positive, but people who are happy don't tend to jump on TikTok, Facebook, X etc to say how wonderful a shop is, a service is or how life is. That's because they're more busy being happy.
The negative side is for people who have an alternative opinion, or want to complain about something or to bully someone else. People who want to complain or offer a negative opinion are a minority in society but outnumber the positive people on Social Media.
This, in my opinion, is what makes Social Media so negative and dangerous. It gives a platform for complaint, arguments and minority opinions for individuals that would otherwise find it difficult to get themselves heard.
Life is unfortunately confrontational these days, from TV News Channels to newspapers etc etc.. They are all pointing out how bad this is and how bad that is.... and where does most of this news come from? Social Media!!
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
That depends entirely on how you use it. If you have used it at all before judging it?I don't post but I use it regularly, and found it very useful, especially for travel. As an example, I followed a couple of professional tour guides prior to my trip to NYC and learnt a number of very useful/interesting facts and got good recommendations for places to visit. I've also found some good car and watch reviewers too. Of course there is a lot of bulls
t on there, but that applies to all social media. (Ironic huh?)MrBig said:
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
That depends entirely on how you use it. If you have used it at all before judging it?I don't post but I use it regularly, and found it very useful, especially for travel. As an example, I followed a couple of professional tour guides prior to my trip to NYC and learnt a number of very useful/interesting facts and got good recommendations for places to visit. I've also found some good car and watch reviewers too. Of course there is a lot of bulls
t on there, but that applies to all social media. (Ironic huh?)super7 said:
bstb3 said:
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
I was thinking the same. Old(ish) fogey that I am I do worry about the influence of social media on peoples mental health, especially on the age ranges targeted by Tik Tok et al. So while I'm normally concerned on anything around censorship and limitation of freedoms, this might actually be worth it. I suspect there is not a lot of serious discourse being lost anyway.I appreciate some parts of Social Media are positive, but people who are happy don't tend to jump on TikTok, Facebook, X etc to say how wonderful a shop is, a service is or how life is. That's because they're more busy being happy.
The negative side is for people who have an alternative opinion, or want to complain about something or to bully someone else. People who want to complain or offer a negative opinion are a minority in society but outnumber the positive people on Social Media.
This, in my opinion, is what makes Social Media so negative and dangerous. It gives a platform for complaint, arguments and minority opinions for individuals that would otherwise find it difficult to get themselves heard.
Life is unfortunately confrontational these days, from TV News Channels to newspapers etc etc.. They are all pointing out how bad this is and how bad that is.... and where does most of this news come from? Social Media!!
By your own admission, does that mean you only represent a small minority with your views?
MiniMan64 said:
Can we just ignore the freedom of speech bit and ban it because it's pure garbage?
It reacts to what your click on, look at or search for. I am planning to do an OU degree later in the year and I’ve watched lots of really useful maths videos. I study languages too and it throws up lots of little tit bits in the various languages I am learning, that help and are interesting eg interviews with Japanese people. There is rubbish and click bait too but I quickly skip that.
If if only shows you garbage maybe how you are using it is the problem!
Two minds, first of all this is a reaction to impressions that China has a psychological backdoor into the US in terms of social manipulation - explicitly it's a 'it teaching our kids the wrong thing' vibe. Then you have the electronic/data aspects - but how China may exploit that is a bit more of a mystery. But, as in the UK, foreign state control of a native media platform is a justifiable concern - it just gets a bit fuzzy in this specific respect. I get the gut reaction.
On the other hand you have little evidence of the above [what there is may fairly be described as selection biased] and how is this any different to Twitter, shorts or reels etc on other platforms that China already has a presence on although doesn't own. You could also be forgiven for thinking that indigenous propaganda can be just as pernicious, if you don't your view may change at half-time when they change sides; in which case, is this just big gov assuring their monopoly of control? Like all these things, politicians tend to be reactive without consideration of 2/3rd order consequence, this won't stop one teenager continuing their SM diet - so if it's a 'in general SM is bad for kids' thing then this does zero to change that [Like stopping knife crime by suing Jeff Bezos].
Orwell vs. Huxley sorta thing. ["Orwell feared those who would deprive us of true information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism."]
--
More generally I think a lot of the concerns about SM are fairly unfounded in one sense - that it leads people to do evil things who wouldn't otherwise, but I do think there's a good case with kids to wean them off their dopamine addiction just from a 'good governance' point of view, at least during school for example.
Interesting study* came out recently into this aspect - most kids would not want to give up their SM singly, but most would be happy giving up if everyone else did. We're social creatures, with the dynamic hierarchy, zeitgeist, status and memetics that go along with that.
Anyway, you can't put the SM st back in the technological donkey, it's here and fills the normal distribution curve of being both very good and very bad at the tails but generally it's somewhere in between; an extension of general society; very much as the curation of your own feed is an extension of you...
*- usual caveats
On the other hand you have little evidence of the above [what there is may fairly be described as selection biased] and how is this any different to Twitter, shorts or reels etc on other platforms that China already has a presence on although doesn't own. You could also be forgiven for thinking that indigenous propaganda can be just as pernicious, if you don't your view may change at half-time when they change sides; in which case, is this just big gov assuring their monopoly of control? Like all these things, politicians tend to be reactive without consideration of 2/3rd order consequence, this won't stop one teenager continuing their SM diet - so if it's a 'in general SM is bad for kids' thing then this does zero to change that [Like stopping knife crime by suing Jeff Bezos].
Orwell vs. Huxley sorta thing. ["Orwell feared those who would deprive us of true information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism."]
--
More generally I think a lot of the concerns about SM are fairly unfounded in one sense - that it leads people to do evil things who wouldn't otherwise, but I do think there's a good case with kids to wean them off their dopamine addiction just from a 'good governance' point of view, at least during school for example.
Interesting study* came out recently into this aspect - most kids would not want to give up their SM singly, but most would be happy giving up if everyone else did. We're social creatures, with the dynamic hierarchy, zeitgeist, status and memetics that go along with that.
Anyway, you can't put the SM s
t back in the technological donkey, it's here and fills the normal distribution curve of being both very good and very bad at the tails but generally it's somewhere in between; an extension of general society; very much as the curation of your own feed is an extension of you...*- usual caveats
TikTok is just too powerful and it’s Chinese.
Look how Twitter and Facebook, for many, have become defaults or self-imposed walled gardens.
You get a leaflet, and on it is the Twitter and facebook address, or instagram etc.
If TikTok becomes a primary starting point for millions of people and businesses and becomes integrated, it’s very disruptive if they then change T&Cs, disappear etc, or start doing stuff you might not like.
The USA has control over Twitter etc, but not TikTok.
This is ultimately “internet” protectionism.
Watch YouTube shorts by all means, Google and USA is your friend right.
Do the same on TikTok, just another congregation of content shared globally, but run by China ultimately, great right? It’s only cat videos and stuff right?
We’ll just look at the power and influence you can exert via these platforms.
Look how Twitter and Facebook, for many, have become defaults or self-imposed walled gardens.
You get a leaflet, and on it is the Twitter and facebook address, or instagram etc.
If TikTok becomes a primary starting point for millions of people and businesses and becomes integrated, it’s very disruptive if they then change T&Cs, disappear etc, or start doing stuff you might not like.
The USA has control over Twitter etc, but not TikTok.
This is ultimately “internet” protectionism.
Watch YouTube shorts by all means, Google and USA is your friend right.
Do the same on TikTok, just another congregation of content shared globally, but run by China ultimately, great right? It’s only cat videos and stuff right?
We’ll just look at the power and influence you can exert via these platforms.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff