Law - Free Speech - Conundrum - Quandary
Discussion
Hello,
Reading this after having been sent it earlier - I thought that living a Western Democracy (of sorts - as long as you enjoy UK/USA First Past The Post Voting) that you have the right to Offend even though others may be Offended by you opining your viewpoint - we all have differing preferences - my one out here in the West Indies is to raise a fist and yell "GO TRUMP" to Americans often wearing my MAGA Baseball Cap - some Yanks and Canandians go quite MAD and delirious - but some go apoplectic - they are mostly Liberal Lefty Wokes from NYC - Washington or California under 45 years of age - but its a Free Speech society in which we live. I personally enjoyed from over here in the Caribbean - Boris - BREXIT and Nigel Farage the UK's most effective Politician since Margaret Thatcher - however you might not have the same view or opinion as mine - as is your right in the Western world!
So please read this and tell me how an Employee in own time and on own Smart Phone - Laptop and Socail Media posting what ever they like - again some may agree and some may disagree with those viewpoints - are Googled and found and then Linkedin leads them to Employer and then people GANG-UP and BULLY Employer to do something with the Employee due to Social Media Posts made in own time on own equipment and using own name and not mentioning who employs them - then Boss gets them into work and Suspends them for nothing about the job they do at work!
I think I would SUE them or go to an Employment Tribunal - what would you do - I obviosly do not like her vile Posts - but see my first paragraph!
What are your thoughts on this story then - I am sure the above covers all valid points - or do I NOT understand the Law of the Land?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13131083/...
Capt. G
Reading this after having been sent it earlier - I thought that living a Western Democracy (of sorts - as long as you enjoy UK/USA First Past The Post Voting) that you have the right to Offend even though others may be Offended by you opining your viewpoint - we all have differing preferences - my one out here in the West Indies is to raise a fist and yell "GO TRUMP" to Americans often wearing my MAGA Baseball Cap - some Yanks and Canandians go quite MAD and delirious - but some go apoplectic - they are mostly Liberal Lefty Wokes from NYC - Washington or California under 45 years of age - but its a Free Speech society in which we live. I personally enjoyed from over here in the Caribbean - Boris - BREXIT and Nigel Farage the UK's most effective Politician since Margaret Thatcher - however you might not have the same view or opinion as mine - as is your right in the Western world!
So please read this and tell me how an Employee in own time and on own Smart Phone - Laptop and Socail Media posting what ever they like - again some may agree and some may disagree with those viewpoints - are Googled and found and then Linkedin leads them to Employer and then people GANG-UP and BULLY Employer to do something with the Employee due to Social Media Posts made in own time on own equipment and using own name and not mentioning who employs them - then Boss gets them into work and Suspends them for nothing about the job they do at work!
I think I would SUE them or go to an Employment Tribunal - what would you do - I obviosly do not like her vile Posts - but see my first paragraph!
What are your thoughts on this story then - I am sure the above covers all valid points - or do I NOT understand the Law of the Land?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13131083/...
Capt. G
Captain-Gatso said:
Hello,
Reading this after having been sent it earlier - I thought that living a Western Democracy (of sorts - as long as you enjoy UK/USA First Past The Post Voting) that you have the right to Offend even though others may be Offended by you opining your viewpoint - we all have differing preferences - my one out here in the West Indies is to raise a fist and yell "GO TRUMP" to Americans often wearing my MAGA Baseball Cap - some Yanks and Canandians go quite MAD and delirious - but some go apoplectic - they are mostly Liberal Lefty Wokes from NYC - Washington or California under 45 years of age - but its a Free Speech society in which we live. I personally enjoyed from over here in the Caribbean - Boris - BREXIT and Nigel Farage the UK's most effective Politician since Margaret Thatcher - however you might not have the same view or opinion as mine - as is your right in the Western world!
So please read this and tell me how an Employee in own time and on own Smart Phone - Laptop and Socail Media posting what ever they like - again some may agree and some may disagree with those viewpoints - are Googled and found and then Linkedin leads them to Employer and then people GANG-UP and BULLY Employer to do something with the Employee due to Social Media Posts made in own time on own equipment and using own name and not mentioning who employs them - then Boss gets them into work and Suspends them for nothing about the job they do at work!
I think I would SUE them or go to an Employment Tribunal - what would you do - I obviosly do not like her vile Posts - but see my first paragraph!
What are your thoughts on this story then - I am sure the above covers all valid points - or do I NOT understand the Law of the Land?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13131083/...
Capt. G
Work for myself = no scummy boss to sack me….Reading this after having been sent it earlier - I thought that living a Western Democracy (of sorts - as long as you enjoy UK/USA First Past The Post Voting) that you have the right to Offend even though others may be Offended by you opining your viewpoint - we all have differing preferences - my one out here in the West Indies is to raise a fist and yell "GO TRUMP" to Americans often wearing my MAGA Baseball Cap - some Yanks and Canandians go quite MAD and delirious - but some go apoplectic - they are mostly Liberal Lefty Wokes from NYC - Washington or California under 45 years of age - but its a Free Speech society in which we live. I personally enjoyed from over here in the Caribbean - Boris - BREXIT and Nigel Farage the UK's most effective Politician since Margaret Thatcher - however you might not have the same view or opinion as mine - as is your right in the Western world!
So please read this and tell me how an Employee in own time and on own Smart Phone - Laptop and Socail Media posting what ever they like - again some may agree and some may disagree with those viewpoints - are Googled and found and then Linkedin leads them to Employer and then people GANG-UP and BULLY Employer to do something with the Employee due to Social Media Posts made in own time on own equipment and using own name and not mentioning who employs them - then Boss gets them into work and Suspends them for nothing about the job they do at work!
I think I would SUE them or go to an Employment Tribunal - what would you do - I obviosly do not like her vile Posts - but see my first paragraph!
What are your thoughts on this story then - I am sure the above covers all valid points - or do I NOT understand the Law of the Land?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13131083/...
Capt. G
I'm a big one for free speech. Unfortunately for her, others take the view that it could reflect badly on their reputation & their business. They have prioritised their business over her free speech & have acted accordingly.
She will now realise that it's not an ideal world and some people don't play nicely.
She will now realise that it's not an ideal world and some people don't play nicely.
If you publish incendiary comments on social media in your own name then you risk being sacked. Employers don’t like such negative publicity and often feel forced to act.
In this case, if I were the employer I am not sure I would be happy with an employee showing such disregard for common sense and propriety. I am not sure I would trust them with my customers.
In this case, if I were the employer I am not sure I would be happy with an employee showing such disregard for common sense and propriety. I am not sure I would trust them with my customers.
I would have fired her too.
It was a blatantly racist comment and would fall under Gross Misconduct I would have thought. Many firms have a social media policy within their contracts of employment and this would fall into that... reputational damage etc
I broadly agree with the OP about free speech, just because someone has chosen to be offended, it doesn't make them right. However, there are limits to free speech - racial hatred being one of them.
It was a blatantly racist comment and would fall under Gross Misconduct I would have thought. Many firms have a social media policy within their contracts of employment and this would fall into that... reputational damage etc
I broadly agree with the OP about free speech, just because someone has chosen to be offended, it doesn't make them right. However, there are limits to free speech - racial hatred being one of them.
I don't see how anyone's free speech has been affected. All that's happened is that this person has been given a quick lesson that there are also consquences to exercising one's freedoms.
She was free to say what she wanted, so can't really complain when others freely reacted to it, and her employer freely decided to dismiss her. Freedom works both ways, and it looks like freedom was the winnner here.
She was free to say what she wanted, so can't really complain when others freely reacted to it, and her employer freely decided to dismiss her. Freedom works both ways, and it looks like freedom was the winnner here.
hidetheelephants said:
Where's the quandary? The EA exercised their freedom of speech, then the employer decided that this brought the firm into disrepute and issued a P45. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
There are a great many people that can't get their heads round this.Silvanus said:
hidetheelephants said:
Where's the quandary? The EA exercised their freedom of speech, then the employer decided that this brought the firm into disrepute and issued a P45. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
There are a great many people that can't get their heads round this.Most firms will have some sort of social media policy with warnings for bringing the company into disrepute.
If you’re easily identifiable from your social media profile then you run the very real risk of falling foul of your company’s policy and disciplinary action could very well be taken. It no defence to say that it was on a private device and off the company clock. Your contract will have a line somewhere about bringing it into reputational dispute.
Companies will protect their business above your perceived freedom of speech and as others have said, you’re not free from the consequences of freedom of speech.
So, it you want to be antisemitic, racist, homophobic, etc, then either have your social media profile seriously locked down to make it so you’re not easily identifiable or simply stop being a racist prick online.
If you’re easily identifiable from your social media profile then you run the very real risk of falling foul of your company’s policy and disciplinary action could very well be taken. It no defence to say that it was on a private device and off the company clock. Your contract will have a line somewhere about bringing it into reputational dispute.
Companies will protect their business above your perceived freedom of speech and as others have said, you’re not free from the consequences of freedom of speech.
So, it you want to be antisemitic, racist, homophobic, etc, then either have your social media profile seriously locked down to make it so you’re not easily identifiable or simply stop being a racist prick online.
hidetheelephants said:
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
Yes it is- that's pretty much the definition.eg You may say that Putin is a git but if you say so then he'll have you murdered; by your definition that is free speech, by mine it falls a bit short.
She should have freedom of speech in an ideal world but it's not an ideal world & her employers believe otherwise.
Real freedom of speech includes freedom to say stuff you don't like.
Biggy Stardust said:
hidetheelephants said:
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
Yes it is- that's pretty much the definition.eg You may say that Putin is a git but if you say so then he'll have you murdered; by your definition that is free speech, by mine it falls a bit short.
She should have freedom of speech in an ideal world but it's not an ideal world & her employers believe otherwise.
Real freedom of speech includes freedom to say stuff you don't like.
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