Trident System Useless??

[Biker 1]

Seems that the second test firing in a row of Trident has failed. I dread to think what would happen in the case of an actual war.
Is all our kit crap & out of date??

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-21/trident-missil...

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Biker 1 said:

Seems that the second test firing in a row of Trident has failed. I dread to think what would happen in the case of an actual war.
Is all our kit crap & out of date??

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-21/trident-missil...

Well it's the US bit so there are no alternatives.

[CrgT16]

It sounds a bit embarrassing. I thought Trident was a known system where unreliability had been ironed out.

The reality is that we cannot forever depend on Uncle Sam.

It’s the same problem in Europe… always took A meia for granted and spent less and less money in defence over the years as it was not needed. Well it seems needed now with the world events.

Hopefully was a truly one off event.

[Ian Geary]

I don't think there's ever a good time for your multi billion pound nuclear umbrella to be proved broken, but now is not a particularly good time.

Hopefully the USA bods can fix it, and I wonder if it affects USA tridents too?

North Korea seem to be doing quite well with their missile programme, despite being heavily sanctioned - maybe the trident tecchs could ask them for some pointers?


Edited to add: the UK abandoned a home grown nuclear deterrent decades ago because of the staggering cost - far beyond what our economy could or can reasonably afford.

Maybe a Euro wide solution would be economically feasible? But not politically feasible of course, for obvious reasons.

It is the USA way or no way basically. We didn't burn the bridge - there never even was one.

Edited by Ian Geary on Wednesday 21st February 07:41

[bad company]

According to the BBC those missiles are £17m a pop so expensive mistakes.

[greygoose]

For 17 million you would expect it to go further, hopefully there is a refund policy…..

[dcb]

CrgT16 said:

It sounds a bit embarrassing. I thought Trident was a known system where unreliability had been ironed out.

The reality is that we cannot forever depend on Uncle Sam.

The UK has depended on the USA for the last 80 years, so I see no evidence
to support the idea of stopping the "special relationship".

Mind you, the large costs of Trident are of doubtful value in a world where non-nuclear
powers like Germany, Italy & Japan get along just fine without.

I think the money wasted on Trident could be better spent on other things.
A better NHS for instance.

Time to sell our seat at the UN Security Council, too ?
The bills need paying sooner rather than later.

[cliffords]

This is why they do the test . If it always worked why bother. They have test fired 160 of them since it began

[James6112]

Nothing to see here, please move on…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68355395

“ In a statement the Ministry of Defence admitted an anomaly had occurred in the most recent launch. But it also said that HMS Vanguard and its crew had been "proven fully capable" in their operations and the test had "reaffirmed the effectiveness of the UK's nuclear deterrent".
The statement added that Trident was the "most reliable weapons system in the world" having completed more than 190 successful tests”

[sherbertdip]

This was not just a test of the missile, it's a DASO (Demonstration and Shakedown Operation) it's a test of the whole system, submarine, crew and missile, it's happened before, some of these missile bodies (made, owned and serviced by the US) will be knocking on for 40 years old, things go wrong in complex systems, it doesn't mean it's useless, it means there was a failure.

DASO rounds have telemetries to the extreme, I'm sure they will have worked out what went wrong.


A failure is not wanted I admit, but on patrol they carry more than 1 missile so in the event of a retaliatory strike, so what - it's not the end of the world !

Edited by sherbertdip on Wednesday 21st February 07:59

[Buzz84]

I believe I read that the previous test the missile actually worked perfectly from a functional perspective.
The reason the test was a failure was that someone programmed it wrong and it went the wrong way!

While that's obviously still not ideal, It all needs a little context rather than just saying "second failed test"

[BikeBikeBIke]

dcb said:

Mind you, the large costs of Trident are of doubtful value in a world where non-nuclear
powers like Germany, Italy & Japan get along just fine without.

If America pull out of NATO and/or cease to be the world's policeman Germany and Japan will certainly have nukes before long, as will the Baltics, Ukraine, Taiwan and all the other places that were under America's protective umbrella over the last 30-80 years.

TBH, just the *possibility* of America in future picking up their ball and going home will make many Western Countries decide they need nukes after all.

I thought Trident was pointless until Feb '22. I was wrong.

[S600BSB]

Seems to be a bit of a pattern here with the RN’s shiny new carriers also breaking down etc. Broken Britain I guess.

[sherbertdip]

S600BSB said:

Seems to be a bit of a pattern here with the RN’s shiny new carriers also breaking down etc. Broken Britain I guess.

Apart from the bit that failed was American.

[V88Dicky]

sherbertdip said:

This was not just a test of the missile, it's a DASO (Demonstration and Shakedown Operation) it's a test of the whole system, submarine, crew and missile, it's happened before, some of these missile bodies (made, owned and serviced by the US) will be knocking on for 40 years old, things go wrong in complex systems, it doesn't mean it's useless, it means there was a failure.

DASO rounds have telemetries to the extreme, I'm sure they will have worked out what went wrong.


A failure is not wanted I admit, but on patrol they carry more than 1 missile so in the event of a retaliatory strike, so what - it's not the end of the world !

Edited by sherbertdip on Wednesday 21st February 07:59

This ^^^

DASOs are done for this precise reason. They’ll find out what failed (mechanically or procedurally), and get it sorted.

[Mr E]

One presumes you use the oldest one for the test?

[frisbee]

Grant Shapps was on board, he probably unplugged the missile to charge his electric toothbrush.

He is one of the Shappest tools in this government so perfect teeth are very important.

[V88Dicky]

I’m not sure if DASO missile bodies are ever circulated as operational missiles. Probably not.

[hidetheelephants]

There have been ~200 test launches since Trident entered service in the 80s with a failure rate of under 5%. It's a rocket that is fired from under the sea, that's pretty gnarly and still objectively impressive.

[nikaiyo2]

You might have hoped the labour party would have dealt with this quietly as opposed to making political capital from it.
Although it appears to be a pretty non event if the navy are to be believed, and certainly I would believe the RN above corbyns old cronies.