British culture - Is there any such thing?

British culture - Is there any such thing?

Author
Discussion

Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,472 posts

220 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Margaret Thatcher famously stated that there was no such thing as "Society", meaning that when people looked to "society" to pay their dole, house them, and generally solve their problems, they are in reality asking lots of individuals and families to put their hands in their pockets, because there isn't this single homogenous entity called society.

Move forward several decades and many people call for reductions in immigration on the grounds that it is damaging to "British culture", and I can't help wondering what exactly British culture is supposed to be?

I can find huge amounts in common with people "like me" - similarly educated, similarly travelled, and so forth - regardless of whether they are British or from another country, but stick me next to someone who grew up on an inner city estate, left school at 16 and works in an unskilled job and what common frames of reference do we have? If we all suddenly had universal translators, though, I'd be that the inner city Brit would find plenty of common ground with people from a similar socioeconomic background in countries all across the globe.

I don't think British Culture exists at all, at least not as an all-encompassing social entity. I think pretty much all cultures around the world are pretty much class based, and people in any given class will often have more in common with people from the same class in different countries than they will with people from different classes in the same country.

If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?

bloomen

7,457 posts

166 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?
When people spout off about a lack of respect or integration into British culture I assume they mean - vague respect for rule of law, equal ish rights, no batty religion lording over everything, expecting one's institutions to do a half decent job and not be bent.

A great deal of the world isn't like that.

What they'd call 'British' is Western democratic.



oyster

12,864 posts

255 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
Margaret Thatcher famously stated that there was no such thing as "Society", meaning that when people looked to "society" to pay their dole, house them, and generally solve their problems, they are in reality asking lots of individuals and families to put their hands in their pockets, because there isn't this single homogenous entity called society.

Move forward several decades and many people call for reductions in immigration on the grounds that it is damaging to "British culture", and I can't help wondering what exactly British culture is supposed to be?

I can find huge amounts in common with people "like me" - similarly educated, similarly travelled, and so forth - regardless of whether they are British or from another country, but stick me next to someone who grew up on an inner city estate, left school at 16 and works in an unskilled job and what common frames of reference do we have? If we all suddenly had universal translators, though, I'd be that the inner city Brit would find plenty of common ground with people from a similar socioeconomic background in countries all across the globe.

I don't think British Culture exists at all, at least not as an all-encompassing social entity. I think pretty much all cultures around the world are pretty much class based, and people in any given class will often have more in common with people from the same class in different countries than they will with people from different classes in the same country.

If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?
Whilst I'm not in favour of immigration reductions, I think it's wrong to lump those who want to see reductions into a homogenous entity.
See what I did there?

wink

pork911

7,365 posts

190 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
bloomen said:
Kermit power said:
If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?
When people spout off about a lack of respect or integration into British culture I assume they mean - vague respect for rule of law, equal ish rights, no batty religion lording over everything, expecting one's institutions to do a half decent job and not be bent.

A great deal of the world isn't like that.

What they'd call 'British' is Western democratic.
A great deal of Brits aren't like that.

bloomen

7,457 posts

166 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
pork911 said:
A great deal of Brits aren't like that.
Well, no. But those are the expectations most have of their society, but it's rather shakier than it used to be.

TeamD

4,977 posts

239 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Yawn...class, class, class....doesn't exist. rolleyes

sugerbear

4,539 posts

165 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
bloomen said:
Kermit power said:
If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?
When people spout off about a lack of respect or integration into British culture I assume they mean - vague respect for rule of law, equal ish rights, no batty religion lording over everything, expecting one's institutions to do a half decent job and not be bent.

A great deal of the world isn't like that.

What they'd call 'British' is Western democratic.
Doesn't take much to see we just have a different way of accepting a bribe rather than an obvious bung in the form of a bag of cash. Quite a few examples of corruption in our institutions, often from the very top, over the past twenty years.


NomduJour

19,601 posts

266 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
Margaret Thatcher famously stated that there was no such thing as "Society"
…except what she actually said was the opposite of the usual interpretation:

“There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate”.

colin_p

4,503 posts

219 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Nihilists doing nihilism.

What is the point banghead

jeff666

2,353 posts

198 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Being British is all about,

Driving a German car
To an Irish themed pub
Drinking Belgium beer
And then going home and buying an Indian takeaway
To sit on a Swedish sofa
In front of a Japanese television
To watch American shows
All the while being suspicious of anything foreign


Stolen from a Tik Tok vid.

Whoozit

3,807 posts

276 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Culture? No, and why should there be. It's a kingdom which has always had proud regional differences, languages, economies, even laws.

BritishNESS, yes. And for more people than just in this island. My family is from Gibraltar. Ask me how fiercely they defend the right to be counted as British.

OutInTheShed

9,389 posts

33 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
Margaret Thatcher famously stated that there was no such thing as "Society", meaning that when people looked to "society" to pay their dole, house them, and generally solve their problems, they are in reality asking lots of individuals and families to put their hands in their pockets, because there isn't this single homogenous entity called society.

Move forward several decades and many people call for reductions in immigration on the grounds that it is damaging to "British culture", and I can't help wondering what exactly British culture is supposed to be?

I can find huge amounts in common with people "like me" - similarly educated, similarly travelled, and so forth - regardless of whether they are British or from another country, but stick me next to someone who grew up on an inner city estate, left school at 16 and works in an unskilled job and what common frames of reference do we have? If we all suddenly had universal translators, though, I'd be that the inner city Brit would find plenty of common ground with people from a similar socioeconomic background in countries all across the globe.

I don't think British Culture exists at all, at least not as an all-encompassing social entity. I think pretty much all cultures around the world are pretty much class based, and people in any given class will often have more in common with people from the same class in different countries than they will with people from different classes in the same country.

If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?
I think some of the key features of 'British' culture are based around our open-ness about taking the best from other cultures, whether that's imitation or by stealing it and putting it into the British Museum. Back over the centuries, the UK has taken a lot of influences from the continent, the orient etc.
Art, science, trade....
These days it takes a lot from the US. Modern 'transatlantic culture' is diluted, because English being the world language, it's not exclusive.

We're mostly a vague subset of European culture, with poor language skills and a narrow education.
We're in the main, not seriously religeous, which does differentiate us from many nations.


I agree in that I don't particularly identify with any national 'culture', in many ways I think English people are the least 'nationalistic' of any nation, often identifying with their peers world wide. I don't think there is any great thing that England or the UK 'stands for' as a cultural identity.
Scotland and Ireland, different story.
I think you might find it hard to find very many people who are prepared to fight for it.

Ashfordian

2,168 posts

96 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
bloomen said:
Kermit power said:
If you disagree, could you define what a "British Culture" which would be recognised by all classes consists of, and how it is significantly different from the cultures of other countries?
When people spout off about a lack of respect or integration into British culture I assume they mean - vague respect for rule of law, equal ish rights, no batty religion lording over everything, expecting one's institutions to do a half decent job and not be bent.

A great deal of the world isn't like that.

What they'd call 'British' is Western democratic.
The above is correct, but we should not forget that historically the British will have influenced many other countries around the world so there will be a blurring or imitation.

Some minor examples of British culture, and you don't have to like them but you and someone living in an inner City council estate will be able to identify them:

- Changing of the Guard
- FA Cup final day
- The British Pub
- An English Breakfast
- Red telephone boxes
- Black cabs


It's really not hard to find examples of British Culture but you take them for granted. For example a siesta is seen as Spanish culture, a Diner is American culture. Both are easy to see as an outsider.

Edited by Ashfordian on Thursday 8th February 18:38

Ashfordian

2,168 posts

96 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
I agree in that I don't particularly identify with any national 'culture', in many ways I think English people are the least 'nationalistic' of any nation, often identifying with their peers world wide. I don't think there is any great thing that England or the UK 'stands for' as a cultural identity.
Scotland and Ireland, different story.
I think you might find it hard to find very many people who are prepared to fight for it.
I disagree with the bit in bold. Despite how the English, Welsh and Scottish interact with each other internally, we would come together and defend against outsiders what we have, if this situation arose. Although some minority groups would certainly expect someone else to do the hard and dangerous parts for them!

CraigyMc

17,115 posts

243 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Talking about weather while queueing to buy a meal deal with nectar points.

QJumper

2,709 posts

33 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Ashfordian said:
OutInTheShed said:
I agree in that I don't particularly identify with any national 'culture', in many ways I think English people are the least 'nationalistic' of any nation, often identifying with their peers world wide. I don't think there is any great thing that England or the UK 'stands for' as a cultural identity.
Scotland and Ireland, different story.
I think you might find it hard to find very many people who are prepared to fight for it.
I disagree with the bit in bold. Despite how the English, Welsh and Scottish interact with each other internally, we would come together and defend against outsiders what we have, if this situation arose. Although some minority groups would certainly expect someone else to do the hard and dangerous parts for them!
That depends.

People might join together and fight against a foreign invasion, but that's a fight for territory, not culture.

You could take away most of the things you listed as part of our culture, and the most people would do is write a stern letter to the Daily Maii.

OutInTheShed

9,389 posts

33 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Ashfordian said:
The above is correct, but we should not forget that historically the British will have influenced many other countries around the world so there will be a blurring or imitation.

Some minor examples of British culture, and you don't have to like them but you and someone living in an inner City council estate will be able to identify them:

- Changing of the Guard
- FA Cup final day
- The British Pub
- An English Breakfast
- Red telephone boxes
- Black cabs


It's really not hard to find examples of British Culture but you take them for granted. For example a siesta is seen as Spanish culture, a Diner is American culture. Both are easy to see as an outsider.

Edited by Ashfordian on Thursday 8th February 18:38
If that's the best you can do, it's all over!

AlexC1981

5,056 posts

224 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
Ashfordian said:
The above is correct, but we should not forget that historically the British will have influenced many other countries around the world so there will be a blurring or imitation.

Some minor examples of British culture, and you don't have to like them but you and someone living in an inner City council estate will be able to identify them:

- Changing of the Guard
- FA Cup final day
- The British Pub
- An English Breakfast
- Red telephone boxes
- Black cabs


It's really not hard to find examples of British Culture but you take them for granted. For example a siesta is seen as Spanish culture, a Diner is American culture. Both are easy to see as an outsider.

Edited by Ashfordian on Thursday 8th February 18:38
Yes, you can't sum it up in a paragraph because it is the combination of the million and one things that shape our lives. A cup of tea with a rich tea biscuit is as British as coffee with biscotti is Italian.

Randy Winkman

17,771 posts

196 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
Ashfordian said:
The above is correct, but we should not forget that historically the British will have influenced many other countries around the world so there will be a blurring or imitation.

Some minor examples of British culture, and you don't have to like them but you and someone living in an inner City council estate will be able to identify them:

- Changing of the Guard
- FA Cup final day
- The British Pub
- An English Breakfast
- Red telephone boxes
- Black cabs


It's really not hard to find examples of British Culture but you take them for granted. For example a siesta is seen as Spanish culture, a Diner is American culture. Both are easy to see as an outsider.

Edited by Ashfordian on Thursday 8th February 18:38
If that's the best you can do, it's all over!
Some things there that are quite location and age dependent. Most young people probably care about pubs to some extent or another but not really the others. And for people of any age they have a London focus.

Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,472 posts

220 months

Thursday 8th February
quotequote all
NomduJour said:
Kermit power said:
Margaret Thatcher famously stated that there was no such thing as "Society"
…except what she actually said was the opposite of the usual interpretation:

“There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate”.
She also said...

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand ‘I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it!’ or ‘I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!’ ‘I am homeless, the Government must house me!’ and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first."