CPS Survey on Rape and Consent

[bitchstewie]

This is absolutely staggering and not in a good way

More to do to tackle rape misconceptions and lack of understanding of consent, CPS survey finds

[turbobloke]

bhstewie said:

This is absolutely staggering and not in a good way

More to do to tackle rape misconceptions and lack of understanding of consent, CPS survey finds

Very not good for fhe 18-24 age range.

[wc98]

Jeez, i have to wonder about some people. I can remember (vaguely ) being a young horny bloke and on two occasions literally knocking at the door when the girl decided against it. I had no trouble immediately stopping, asking if they were fine and letting them know that i was happy to wait until they wanted to try again, which they did the next time we met up on both occasions.

Both were relationships that had progressed to getting to know each other stage and given people have all sorts of uncertainties in their teens i just assumed these things happened and that was they way to behave in that situation. No one told me that, at home or school, it's just how decent human beings behave toward each other no matter how they are feeling at the time.

[Randy Winkman]

Even though some of the bad numbers are quite low it is also surprising they are anything above zero. And it does balance against the rather OTT (in my view) concern we have heard from some, that young men will be frightened to have sex without getting signed consent.

[bitchstewie]

Honestly I didn't expect to be reading some of the stuff it's highlighted.

The idea that you've said via social media or a messaging app that you're up for sexual activity means you can't change your mind in person is simply bonkers.

I'm genuinely surprised as I thought younger generations were going to be more aware around this kind of thing.

It's pretty disturbing tbh.

[glazbagun]

turbobloke said:

bhstewie said:

This is absolutely staggering and not in a good way

More to do to tackle rape misconceptions and lack of understanding of consent, CPS survey finds

Very not good for fhe 18-24 age range.

The young are diverging alarmingly. In the US & Korea young men are becoming more socially conservative than their parents while young women are becoming much more liberal, & the gap is big in the UK too.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1750849207...

Edited by glazbagun on Saturday 27th January 09:04

[272BHP]

I suspect the responses would have varied wildly depending on the cultural background of the person being asked.

[Derek Smith]

There was a thread on PH, a little pre-Covid I think, where many posters were outraged that an intoxicated woman will probably be unable to give consent. It appeared to be a woke step too far.

Rape is endemic. I ran 3.7 rape and serious sexual offences ID parades a week. Most were not prosecuted because there was no evidence of lack of consent.

[bitchstewie]

I half-expect that kind of st with some of the dinosaurs on here.

I'm genuinely surprised that's the views amongst the younger generation though I'm not clear how much of that is girls and young women feeling they don't have a right to change their mind v boys and young men thinking consent online prior to meeting means it's a "done deal".

[mac96]

I would have expected some uncertainties about the definition of consent, but the one that really surprised me was how many respondents thought it wasn't rape if the victim did not fight back. Those respondents haven't even got as far as considering that consent is needed.

I honestly thought that sort of view was from before my time, and I was a teenager in the 60s/70s. Scarey.

[Solocle]

mac96 said:

I would have expected some uncertainties about the definition of consent, but the one that really surprised me was how many respondents thought it wasn't rape if the victim did not fight back. Those respondents haven't even got as far as considering that consent is needed.

I honestly thought that sort of view was from before my time, and I was a teenager in the 60s/70s. Scarey.

It's an attitude that might tie in somewhat with what I heard on the schoolyard (2010s) - things like "It's not rape if she enjoys it". But I always assumed those were just immature jokes, and not an actual reflection of the viewpoint of the person saying it. It was so obviously not true, and not to mention education like the "cup of tea" video in assemblies.

[mac96]

Solocle said:

mac96 said:

I would have expected some uncertainties about the definition of consent, but the one that really surprised me was how many respondents thought it wasn't rape if the victim did not fight back. Those respondents haven't even got as far as considering that consent is needed.

I honestly thought that sort of view was from before my time, and I was a teenager in the 60s/70s. Scarey.

It's an attitude that might tie in somewhat with what I heard on the schoolyard (2010s) - things like "It's not rape if she enjoys it". But I always assumed those were just immature jokes, and not an actual reflection of the viewpoint of the person saying it. It was so obviously not true, and not to mention education like the "cup of tea" video in assemblies.

I hadn't seen that video. I wonder how effective such things are. It is amusing, but does the target audience of young teenagers retain the message better because of that, or does it just become a standing joke whereby 'tea' means 'sex' allowing all sorts of innuendo at teachers' expense.

To answer my own question, some of the most effective business training videos I remember were Video Arts productions featuring John Cleese, so perhaps humour does work.

[Leon R]

How disappointing for the 18 - 24 demographic.

I thought they were supposed to be more conscious of this.

[Solocle]

mac96 said:

I hadn't seen that video. I wonder how effective such things are. It is amusing, but does the target audience of young teenagers retain the message better because of that, or does it just become a standing joke whereby 'tea' means 'sex' allowing all sorts of innuendo at teachers' expense.

To answer my own question, some of the most effective business training videos I remember were Video Arts productions featuring John Cleese, so perhaps humour does work.

I remember it being shown in an assembly roughly 8 years ago, so it definitely was memorable!

[JagLover]

glazbagun said:

The young are diverging alarmingly. In the US & Korea young men are becoming more socially conservative than their parents while young women are becoming much more liberal, & the gap is big in the UK too.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1750849207...

Likely includes an element of those favoured by the establishment backing it and those not turning against it. Combined with that the increasing end of the traditional male role in society. The stereotype used to be get a good job, find a wife, provide for her and children, and live happily ever after. A young man will know how that likely ends now.

So many factors involved there that it it is fairly meaningless to talk just of "liberal" or "socially conservative". Certainly many men are reacting by trying to withdraw from society as much as possible, is that really "socially conservative" or just a rejection of what is offered to them. I would be far more interested in detailed surveys of young men on how they view their place in society and sexual politics.

[HTP99]

Leon R said:

How disappointing for the 18 - 24 demographic.

I thought they were supposed to be more conscious of this.

Yeahh, I heard this yesterday, mentioned it to my 24yo female colleague, she was pretty shocked too.

[Previous]

JagLover said:

glazbagun said:

The young are diverging alarmingly. In the US & Korea young men are becoming more socially conservative than their parents while young women are becoming much more liberal, & the gap is big in the UK too.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1750849207...

Likely includes an element of those favoured by the establishment backing it and those not turning against it. Combined with that the increasing end of the traditional male role in society. The stereotype used to be get a good job, find a wife, provide for her and children, and live happily ever after. A young man will know how that likely ends now.

So many factors involved there that it it is fairly meaningless to talk just of "liberal" or "socially conservative". Certainly many men are reacting by trying to withdraw from society as much as possible, is that really "socially conservative" or just a rejection of what is offered to them. I would be far more interested in detailed surveys of young men on how they view their place in society and sexual politics.

I do think there's something in this, and the withdrawal from society.

I believe - but would struggle to evidence - that in public many will parrot the (typically Liberal) line on any given topic that they believe they are expected too, due the very obvious trial by social media and expulsion that would result from not doing so.

I suspect many then hold very different views which they don't express other than on anonymous surveys.

Tbh more than one will likely purposely give the wrong result on surveys like this as well.

[vetrof]

HTP99 said:

Leon R said:

How disappointing for the 18 - 24 demographic.

I thought they were supposed to be more conscious of this.

Yeahh, I heard this yesterday, mentioned it to my 24yo female colleague, she was pretty shocked too.

A decade of telling kids that how they feel and ‘my truth’ are most important leads to a fked up world view. Who could’ve seen that coming?

[andy_s]

JagLover said:

glazbagun said:

The young are diverging alarmingly. In the US & Korea young men are becoming more socially conservative than their parents while young women are becoming much more liberal, & the gap is big in the UK too.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1750849207...

Likely includes an element of those favoured by the establishment backing it and those not turning against it. Combined with that the increasing end of the traditional male role in society. The stereotype used to be get a good job, find a wife, provide for her and children, and live happily ever after. A young man will know how that likely ends now.

So many factors involved there that it it is fairly meaningless to talk just of "liberal" or "socially conservative". Certainly many men are reacting by trying to withdraw from society as much as possible, is that really "socially conservative" or just a rejection of what is offered to them. I would be far more interested in detailed surveys of young men on how they view their place in society and sexual politics.

Yeah I saw this the other day, different information ecosystems perhaps, I mean, you're hardly likely to want to be preached to about your toxic masculinity all day. I also wondered whether something like 'free speech' would be bracketed as 'liberal' or 'far right wing' nowadays either.
Brits took a look then thought, er, no thanks. South Koreans appear to be fully disconnected. Brits at least have a 1.0 margin on fertility rates over them as well...wonder if that's connected...but as you say, too loose to draw much of a conclusion on n=1 anyway.

--

Having two boys young men in this age range I can happily report back that we've chatted about stuff like this and they were well aligned, even met their girlfriends in, wait for it - Real Life! :shock:

[Randy Winkman]

vetrof said:

HTP99 said:

Leon R said:

How disappointing for the 18 - 24 demographic.

I thought they were supposed to be more conscious of this.

Yeahh, I heard this yesterday, mentioned it to my 24yo female colleague, she was pretty shocked too.

A decade of telling kids that how they feel and ‘my truth’ are most important leads to a fked up world view. Who could’ve seen that coming?

Or it's all the porn they watch? Just a suggestion.