Comments on Knife crime - not welcome

Comments on Knife crime - not welcome

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ruggedscotty

Original Poster:

5,798 posts

216 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68085532


Actor Idris Elba says there is no "one size fits all" answer to tackling knife crime, after victims' families urged mandatory jail terms for possession.

Dr Sinead O'Malley, whose daughter was killed in Nottingham last year, has called for compulsory prison sentences.

Elba said deterrents were crucial, but that some people carry knives out of fear.

It comes as the government announced plans to close "a legal loophole" to ban the sale of zombie knives.

Speaking to BBC Breakfast, Elba said many young people - usually young men - carry knives because they are scared, because they have been stabbed themselves, or have seen someone else stabbed.

Sorry but if your stopped with a knife then you should face consequences. And the custodial sentence is one mighty deterrent. No one should be carrying a knife.

Terminator X

16,350 posts

211 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Employ more police and start up stop and search. Search only the people most likely to be carrying knives and don't label it racist.

TX.

valiant

11,363 posts

167 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
There simply isn't the court time, the necessary staff or the prison space to house all those who carry a knife.

It's all well and good saying they should all be jailed but it simply isn't going to happen

The party of law and order has seen to that.

Burrow01

1,911 posts

199 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
ruggedscotty said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68085532


Actor Idris Elba says there is no "one size fits all" answer to tackling knife crime, after victims' families urged mandatory jail terms for possession.

Dr Sinead O'Malley, whose daughter was killed in Nottingham last year, has called for compulsory prison sentences.

Elba said deterrents were crucial, but that some people carry knives out of fear.

It comes as the government announced plans to close "a legal loophole" to ban the sale of zombie knives.

Speaking to BBC Breakfast, Elba said many young people - usually young men - carry knives because they are scared, because they have been stabbed themselves, or have seen someone else stabbed.

Sorry but if your stopped with a knife then you should face consequences. And the custodial sentence is one mighty deterrent. No one should be carrying a knife.
This gets into the US scenario where people want guns because other people have guns, and so the arms race starts.

Agree that if you are carrying a lethal weapon without just cause then you should be charged

bristolbaron

5,089 posts

219 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
faronalexpaul on instagram is trying to tackle knife crime one knife at a time. A remarkable man taking knives off the street with little support (and at times resistance) from the police.

Community led projects by people like Faron will be the only answer to making inner cities safer. The government need to step up investment into community projects and invest in police funding - most stations don’t even have an amnesty box any more.

biggbn

24,976 posts

227 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Burrow01 said:
ruggedscotty said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68085532


Actor Idris Elba says there is no "one size fits all" answer to tackling knife crime, after victims' families urged mandatory jail terms for possession.

Dr Sinead O'Malley, whose daughter was killed in Nottingham last year, has called for compulsory prison sentences.

Elba said deterrents were crucial, but that some people carry knives out of fear.

It comes as the government announced plans to close "a legal loophole" to ban the sale of zombie knives.

Speaking to BBC Breakfast, Elba said many young people - usually young men - carry knives because they are scared, because they have been stabbed themselves, or have seen someone else stabbed.

Sorry but if your stopped with a knife then you should face consequences. And the custodial sentence is one mighty deterrent. No one should be carrying a knife.
This gets into the US scenario where people want guns because other people have guns, and so the arms race starts.

Agree that if you are carrying a lethal weapon without just cause then you should be charged
Now, just cause and reasonable and necessary excuse can get muddled. Carpet fitter, window fitter, craftsman....someone who has been repeatedly assaulted, has told the police several times and has now been threatened that they are going to be stabbed to death? All of these sound like reasonable and necessary excuses to me? But they aren't, are they. I have had someone try to stab me several times now, and seeing that bit of metal is a game changer believe me. I know what I would have done if I lived in an area that I couldn't get out of and was being targeted daily and was in fear of my life. Luckily those days are long gone, but I can empathise with those who are so scared they carry themselves. Not my bag, never was, but I can understand in a word where someone doesn't feel protected by the society they live in why they might take steps to defend themselves and those they love.

Castrol for a knave

5,300 posts

98 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all


He has a good point. Sentences are only one way of tackling the problem. Their needs to be a fully worked and funded examination as to why some kids are carrying knives and what we can do to reduce this. It may be a multi-factor approach, with investment into youth programmes, accepting some uncomfortable truths and trying to break kids out of gangs and cycle of violence, funding police task forces, in terms of ground level community policing and aggressive task force policing .....

I don't know what the answer is, but sentences as a deterrent are only part of the picture and will only work on a certain section of potential offenders.

QJumper

2,709 posts

33 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Castrol for a knave said:
He has a good point. Sentences are only one way of tackling the problem. Their needs to be a fully worked and funded examination as to why some kids are carrying knives and what we can do to reduce this. It may be a multi-factor approach, with investment into youth programmes, accepting some uncomfortable truths and trying to break kids out of gangs and cycle of violence, funding police task forces, in terms of ground level community policing and aggressive task force policing .....

I don't know what the answer is, but sentences as a deterrent are only part of the picture and will only work on a certain section of potential offenders.
No, he has a poor point, as it's the same argument for guns.

I agree that sentences are only a small part of the problem, and wont deter the worst offenders. However that's true of guns too. The fact is that too many young people appear to carry knives. Strict sentencing will substantially reduce that, leaving it just to the worst offenders. It won't cure the problem, but will reduce it.

Donbot

4,123 posts

134 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Mandatory sentencing didn't work last time and likely won't work in the future.

Length of sentencing has a much smaller impact on crime reduction than the likelihood of getting caught. And the (typically) young men who they are after won't think they will get caught anyway.

We could end up doing a load of stop and search (with all the problems with discrimination that brings). But that would require loads more police.

Plus you can't ignore the discrimination aspect. I'm sure the people in favour of random stop and search wouldn't be happy to be searched by the police on a regular basis purely because of their 'demographic'.

Edited by Donbot on Thursday 25th January 16:34

captain_cynic

13,357 posts

102 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Donbot said:
Mandatory sentencing didn't work last time and likely won't work in the future.
Pretty much this.

Prevention is better than cure and it's been repeatedly proven that harsher sentences do not reduce crime... Doublely so when kids are involved as they're the least likely demographic to consider the consequences.

Focusing on the causes and drivers of knife crime and the associated stressors is hard and saying "lock people up (in prisons that have no room)" is easier for the hard of thinking to digest.


Donbot

4,123 posts

134 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
Donbot said:
Mandatory sentencing didn't work last time and likely won't work in the future.
Pretty much this.

Prevention is better than cure and it's been repeatedly proven that harsher sentences do not reduce crime... Doublely so when kids are involved as they're the least likely demographic to consider the consequences.

Focusing on the causes and drivers of knife crime and the associated stressors is hard and saying "lock people up (in prisons that have no room)" is easier for the hard of thinking to digest.
I edited as you posted to add more and I completely agree.

Rivenink

3,936 posts

113 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
As usual, there is a complex problem with several underlying issues causing a dangerous symptom.

As usual, the Government announces some lazy measure that sounds good for the news, but will only make the problem worse.

Just what these young lads need, a few traumatising years in an underfunded youth detention center from which they'll come out entirely equipped for a life of crime and a deep sense of rage against society.

Actually solving the underlying issues would solve the symptom.


Terminator X

16,350 posts

211 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Donbot said:
Mandatory sentencing didn't work last time and likely won't work in the future.

Length of sentencing has a much smaller impact on crime reduction than the likelihood of getting caught. And the (typically) young men who they are after won't think they will get caught anyway.

We could end up doing a load of stop and search (with all the problems with discrimination that brings). But that would require loads more police.

Plus you can't ignore the discrimination aspect. I'm sure the people in favour of random stop and search wouldn't be happy to be searched by the police on a regular basis purely because of their 'demographic'.

Edited by Donbot on Thursday 25th January 16:34
Why not. Whatever demographic that is then stop and search them. My nan is unlikely to be carrying a knife etc.

TX.

Vasco

17,370 posts

112 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Something also needs to be done about the ease of availability/supply.
I know there are plenty of opportunities to use razors, ordinary house knives etc but who is supplying all the machetes, how is their sale controlled ?

Castrol for a knave

5,300 posts

98 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
QJumper said:
Castrol for a knave said:
He has a good point. Sentences are only one way of tackling the problem. Their needs to be a fully worked and funded examination as to why some kids are carrying knives and what we can do to reduce this. It may be a multi-factor approach, with investment into youth programmes, accepting some uncomfortable truths and trying to break kids out of gangs and cycle of violence, funding police task forces, in terms of ground level community policing and aggressive task force policing .....

I don't know what the answer is, but sentences as a deterrent are only part of the picture and will only work on a certain section of potential offenders.
No, he has a poor point, as it's the same argument for guns.

I agree that sentences are only a small part of the problem, and wont deter the worst offenders. However that's true of guns too. The fact is that too many young people appear to carry knives. Strict sentencing will substantially reduce that, leaving it just to the worst offenders. It won't cure the problem, but will reduce it.
Pretty much anyone has access to a knife, guns, not so much.

I never said deterrent sentences are not the answer. They are, but for the longer term, there needs to be grassroots work done to find out exactly what and why. that is across agencies. But, these agencies, youth projects and such are strapped for cash. Many were victim to the austerity cuts (way to go George) and never established.

It's not handwringing, it's tackling a problem from beginning to usually tragic end.

Donbot

4,123 posts

134 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Why not. Whatever demographic that is then stop and search them. My nan is unlikely to be carrying a knife etc.

TX.
People who aren't doing anything wrong shouldn't be stopped and searched by the police without probable cause. Though as this won't affect you, you won't care.

I was searched 3 times when I was younger for no reason and that was enough to piss me off. Last time round there were the same people being searched multiple times a week!

Not going to build good police relations with the people who need it most is it.

speedyman

1,560 posts

241 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Caught carrying a knife then straight onto a tag which can identify you as a possible stabber when out during the day and make sure they are on a curfew at night. Once those suspects who are out during the day have been stopped and searched a few times maybe they might get the message.

Rivenink

3,936 posts

113 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
speedyman said:
Caught carrying a knife then straight onto a tag which can identify you as a possible stabber when out during the day and make sure they are on a curfew at night. Once those suspects who are out during the day have been stopped and searched a few times maybe they might get the message.
1. Who's paying for this police state level surveillence

2. What message will they get; that the police are the enemy as much as the gang up the road that's looking for blood?


mickk

29,441 posts

249 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Donbot said:
Not going to build good police relations with the people who need it most is it.
Haven't we gone past that point now? People's view of the copper must be at an all time low.

Donbot

4,123 posts

134 months

Thursday 25th January
quotequote all
Vasco said:
Something also needs to be done about the ease of availability/supply.
I know there are plenty of opportunities to use razors, ordinary house knives etc but who is supplying all the machetes, how is their sale controlled ?
A knife is more likely to kill someone than a machete. Plus a machete is much more difficult to conceal.