Birmingham Transport Plan, remove parking spaces
Discussion
I really dislike Birmingham. Though there is no money, so is this just hot air.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/14861...
Edited, I forgot to include the proposal 20mph standard limit, except strategic roads, 30mph.
Safe to say, assuming still driving by the time this comes to fruition in 5/7 years will be avoiding the place. Pretty much avoid it now. Hell hole.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/14861...
rabid anti car council people said:
The allocation of road space will change away from prioritising private cars, to support the delivery of public transport and active travel networks. (Note:- Active travel apparently means, walking, wheeling i.e. wheelchairs and disability equipment, cycling, scooters.)
The city centre of Birmingham will be transformed through the creation of a network of pedestrianised streets and public spaces, integrated with public transport services and cycling infrastructure. Access to the city centre for private cars will be limited, with no through trips allowed.
Parking will be used as a means to manage demand for travel by car through availability, pricing and restrictions. Where development potential exists, land currently occupied by car parking will be put to more productive use.
On-street parking replaced with outdoor hospitality space
Divide the city centre into seven segments (the city core and six peripheral segments bound by the A4540 Ring Road), is a first step towards encouraging sustainable freight movements. Each segment can only be accessed from the A4540 Ring Road, while movement between segments is only possible for public transport, pedestrians, and cyclists. All other vehicles cannot cross the segment boundaries due to physical measures such as bus gates and road closures, and so would need to go back to the A4540 Ring Road to move between segments.
Reduction in council owned car park spaces (at least by 2,500 spaces since 2012) and redevelopment of a number of large car park sites. Car parks to be redeveloped into housing.
Review of all parking provision including areas outside the A4540 Ring Road.
Existing Controlled Parking Zones in place and extend these to remove free car parking from within the A4540 Ring Road, from neighbourhoods on the outskirts of the city centre, and from local centres.
Thought there was "No war on the motorist."The city centre of Birmingham will be transformed through the creation of a network of pedestrianised streets and public spaces, integrated with public transport services and cycling infrastructure. Access to the city centre for private cars will be limited, with no through trips allowed.
Parking will be used as a means to manage demand for travel by car through availability, pricing and restrictions. Where development potential exists, land currently occupied by car parking will be put to more productive use.
On-street parking replaced with outdoor hospitality space
Divide the city centre into seven segments (the city core and six peripheral segments bound by the A4540 Ring Road), is a first step towards encouraging sustainable freight movements. Each segment can only be accessed from the A4540 Ring Road, while movement between segments is only possible for public transport, pedestrians, and cyclists. All other vehicles cannot cross the segment boundaries due to physical measures such as bus gates and road closures, and so would need to go back to the A4540 Ring Road to move between segments.
Reduction in council owned car park spaces (at least by 2,500 spaces since 2012) and redevelopment of a number of large car park sites. Car parks to be redeveloped into housing.
Review of all parking provision including areas outside the A4540 Ring Road.
Existing Controlled Parking Zones in place and extend these to remove free car parking from within the A4540 Ring Road, from neighbourhoods on the outskirts of the city centre, and from local centres.
Edited, I forgot to include the proposal 20mph standard limit, except strategic roads, 30mph.
Safe to say, assuming still driving by the time this comes to fruition in 5/7 years will be avoiding the place. Pretty much avoid it now. Hell hole.
Cold said:
Stopping easy access into city/town centres has always been a good way to kill off the high street. Seems like far too many councils get excited about this.
^^ this x 100.When you make it difficult for solvent people (surely the very demograph anyone sensible would wish to attract) to get to the shops in their own transport, having to hump any purchases hundreds of yards or on and off public transport, those very same people who would otherwise make the shopping areas work vote with their feet (and their cars) and instead drive to retail parks which are invariably free to park and likely to be a safer experience overall.
Witness how many formerly decent shopping areas now resemble semi derelict ghost towns with an air of menace and all sorts hanging around, you really don't want to take your lovely wife and children there.
No idea why Amazon is doing so well?
Eh? You'd rather have this? Taking priority away from car use has literally led to billions of pounds of investment
FiF said:
Thought there was "No war on the motorist."
Edited, I forgot to include the proposal 20mph standard limit, except strategic roads, 30mph.
Safe to say, assuming still driving by the time this comes to fruition in 5/7 years will be avoiding the place. Pretty much avoid it now. Hell hole.
I live in Edgbaston and the quickest way for most people on my side of the city to get to Spaghetti Junction is to drive into town and join the urban motorway literally 100m from New Street Station. It's frankly insane.Edited, I forgot to include the proposal 20mph standard limit, except strategic roads, 30mph.
Safe to say, assuming still driving by the time this comes to fruition in 5/7 years will be avoiding the place. Pretty much avoid it now. Hell hole.
Breaking the concrete collar at Masshouse around 15 years ago was the first step to making a more llivable and walkable city. It took away some crappy car parks but didn't stop people driving into town. It did lead to the creation of several thousand new dwellings, a park, massive expansion of one of the city universities and an incoming HS2 station. The Clean Air Zone was the first big nudge to get people out of cars and this is being followed by carving up the city centre like a trivial pursuit cheese so that traffic has to go around rather than through. This has been handily aided by the Curzon Street HS2 development and the new Metro line through Digbeth.
If I have a meeting in London or go shopping in Oxford Street I don't expect to drive there. Cars are being pushed out of Birmingham city centre and although directly affected by this everyday I generally support what is being done but only if public transport options are in place. The city core is set to expand enormously out to the A4540 Middleway. It's already a more pleasant experience but if you want to avoid the place it's probably for the best.
So their plan to attract people to their buzzing new exciting areas it to restrict people going to them? Flawless logic, 10/10.
This is nothing more than "look, we're trying to be ecological". I don't fancy leaving a bicycle out in Birmingham, either. Sounds like a shortcut to a long walk home.
This is nothing more than "look, we're trying to be ecological". I don't fancy leaving a bicycle out in Birmingham, either. Sounds like a shortcut to a long walk home.
grumbledoak said:
I love these plans. The outcome is as predictable as tomorrow's dawn. But never their fault.
They are going to replace parking spaces with "outdoor hospitality space". So all those people who won't now go will have lots of space to not go to.
What a load of plonkers.
I'm not sure old, grumpy, sober men are the target demographic of outdoor hospitality providers.They are going to replace parking spaces with "outdoor hospitality space". So all those people who won't now go will have lots of space to not go to.
What a load of plonkers.
Don't know about you, but when I pop out for a meal and drinks I'd much rather not have to drive.
grumbledoak said:
I love these plans. The outcome is as predictable as tomorrow's dawn. But never their fault.
They are going to replace parking spaces with "outdoor hospitality space". So all those people who won't now go will have lots of space to not go to.
What a load of plonkers.
YepThey are going to replace parking spaces with "outdoor hospitality space". So all those people who won't now go will have lots of space to not go to.
What a load of plonkers.
I note also the partition of the city into "zones", just like in Oxford. 15 minute cities are a conspiracy theory though apparently.
993BPT said:
Not just shopping.
Access to theatres & restaurants in Birmingham by car has been made much more difficult due to road closures & one way systems. We missed the start of a Friday night show at the Hippodrome due to traffic gridlock. Now avoid when possible.
I was once a regular in Birmingham for the nightlife. I now very rarely go. Yes there is public transpoort but it's expensive and rarely goes where I want to to at the times I wish to go there.Access to theatres & restaurants in Birmingham by car has been made much more difficult due to road closures & one way systems. We missed the start of a Friday night show at the Hippodrome due to traffic gridlock. Now avoid when possible.
I'm sure the various businesses will appreciate the empty spaces where once were customers.
I'm reminded of a king called Canute who proved the concept of inevitability & that stupid commands didn't work.
horseshoecrab said:
Eh? You'd rather have this? Taking priority away from car use has literally led to billions of pounds of investment
FiF said:
Thought there was "No war on the motorist."
Edited, I forgot to include the proposal 20mph standard limit, except strategic roads, 30mph.
Safe to say, assuming still driving by the time this comes to fruition in 5/7 years will be avoiding the place. Pretty much avoid it now. Hell hole.
I live in Edgbaston and the quickest way for most people on my side of the city to get to Spaghetti Junction is to drive into town and join the urban motorway literally 100m from New Street Station. It's frankly insane.Edited, I forgot to include the proposal 20mph standard limit, except strategic roads, 30mph.
Safe to say, assuming still driving by the time this comes to fruition in 5/7 years will be avoiding the place. Pretty much avoid it now. Hell hole.
Breaking the concrete collar at Masshouse around 15 years ago was the first step to making a more llivable and walkable city. It took away some crappy car parks but didn't stop people driving into town. It did lead to the creation of several thousand new dwellings, a park, massive expansion of one of the city universities and an incoming HS2 station. The Clean Air Zone was the first big nudge to get people out of cars and this is being followed by carving up the city centre like a trivial pursuit cheese so that traffic has to go around rather than through. This has been handily aided by the Curzon Street HS2 development and the new Metro line through Digbeth.
If I have a meeting in London or go shopping in Oxford Street I don't expect to drive there. Cars are being pushed out of Birmingham city centre and although directly affected by this everyday I generally support what is being done but only if public transport options are in place. The city core is set to expand enormously out to the A4540 Middleway. It's already a more pleasant experience but if you want to avoid the place it's probably for the best.
Plenty of places got into a mess in the 1950s-1970s by planning around the car, Birmingham included (how many here complain that it's a concrete s
thole?). Movement away from this will obviously cause some short term pain but it should bear fruit - just look at how Danish and German Cities have been able to do it.Biggy Stardust said:
I was once a regular in Birmingham for the nightlife. I now very rarely go. Yes there is public transpoort but it's expensive and rarely goes where I want to to at the times I wish to go there.
I'm sure the various businesses will appreciate the empty spaces where once were customers.
I'm reminded of a king called Canute who proved the concept of inevitability & that stupid commands didn't work.
The Canute thing is interesting. Folklore - Trying to hold back the tideI'm sure the various businesses will appreciate the empty spaces where once were customers.
I'm reminded of a king called Canute who proved the concept of inevitability & that stupid commands didn't work.
OR
Demonstrating the tide cannot be held back.
I'm not going to comment on Birmingham as I don't live there but I jump on the bus or in summer my bike to get about. Driving for a night out is a no no for me. I'm a big advocate of Park and ride also.
Smint said:
^^ this x 100.
When you make it difficult for solvent people (surely the very demograph anyone sensible would wish to attract) to get to the shops in their own transport, having to hump any purchases hundreds of yards or on and off public transport, those very same people who would otherwise make the shopping areas work vote with their feet (and their cars) and instead drive to retail parks which are invariably free to park and likely to be a safer experience overall.
Witness how many formerly decent shopping areas now resemble semi derelict ghost towns with an air of menace and all sorts hanging around, you really don't want to take your lovely wife and children there.
No idea why Amazon is doing so well?
This, basically. Kill off all the shops, especially any long established smaller businesses selling bulkier items, get the chains to relocate to the retail parks on the edges & get a hollowed out city centre basically comprising the cheapest of student accommodation in either converted office blocks or thrown up in a hurry, some hotels, restaurants, bars and museums and that’s it. You’ve then got somewhere that’s got nightlife, if you’re lucky enough to live walking distance away, but no day life & no locals visiting because the lack of daytime activity (or, if you’re an authority like Glasgow and you’ve knackered the bus journey times and routes with your loony Covid era traffic changes) & no public transport to get city residents in & out of the centre.When you make it difficult for solvent people (surely the very demograph anyone sensible would wish to attract) to get to the shops in their own transport, having to hump any purchases hundreds of yards or on and off public transport, those very same people who would otherwise make the shopping areas work vote with their feet (and their cars) and instead drive to retail parks which are invariably free to park and likely to be a safer experience overall.
Witness how many formerly decent shopping areas now resemble semi derelict ghost towns with an air of menace and all sorts hanging around, you really don't want to take your lovely wife and children there.
No idea why Amazon is doing so well?
Glasgow is now a ghost town during the day thanks to this sort of s
t, but the shopping centres and retail parks on the edges are insanely busy. Be careful what you wish for.horseshoecrab said:
Eh? You'd rather have this? Taking priority away from car use has literally led to billions of pounds of investment
Anyway, I have no problem with them pedestrianising brum city centre, but they need to make some provision for secure car parking outside of the LEZ/pedestrianised bit. The trains are f
king useless, the tram is great if you happen to live near its one line, so if they want more footfall in the city they've got to allow for it somehow.MrBig said:
I miss those days. Park on the back streets behind Moor Street Station, whizz round a few more side streets, through masshouse car park up onto the dual carriageway and on the expressway in minutes
Anyway, I have no problem with them pedestrianising brum city centre, but they need to make some provision for secure car parking outside of the LEZ/pedestrianised bit. The trains are fking useless, the tram is great if you happen to live near its one line, so if they want more footfall in the city they've got to allow for it somehow.
They've literally said they will remove free car parking in surrounding areas also. It's in the OP.Anyway, I have no problem with them pedestrianising brum city centre, but they need to make some provision for secure car parking outside of the LEZ/pedestrianised bit. The trains are f
king useless, the tram is great if you happen to live near its one line, so if they want more footfall in the city they've got to allow for it somehow.We used to go shopping in Birmingham, occasionally to the theatre.
We lived walking distance from a rail line into New St that was electrified a few years ago.
Did we ever go in by train? Did we risk having to share space with the great British public?
No, we stopped going in and she shops online, the out of town M&S in Tamworth is better than the one in Birmingham and has a car park (but you will struggle to park when it is busy).
This will turn the Centre of Birmingham into more of a place the affluent are likely to avoid. More pubs and clubs producing drunks and antisocial behaviour.
We lived walking distance from a rail line into New St that was electrified a few years ago.
Did we ever go in by train? Did we risk having to share space with the great British public?
No, we stopped going in and she shops online, the out of town M&S in Tamworth is better than the one in Birmingham and has a car park (but you will struggle to park when it is busy).
This will turn the Centre of Birmingham into more of a place the affluent are likely to avoid. More pubs and clubs producing drunks and antisocial behaviour.
I’ve mentioned before, I booked tickets to a gig in Cambridge then decided to look at my transport plans for the gig. Transpired to be exceedingly difficult transport options, zi therefore abandoned the gig and will never bother to book any event in Cambridge again. Just not worth the aggravation.
Cambridge have made it so difficult in transport terms that businesses are losing out to customers like me.
Cambridge have made it so difficult in transport terms that businesses are losing out to customers like me.
A lot of town and cities could be improved by making it easier to walk from A to B.
It's easy to say 'what about the High Street shops, but most of those are beyond help.
People want to spend their cash in car-free shopping malls and out of town sheds.
I've lived in a couple of cities, if you want people to do that, you have to make it worth their while, lots of 'attractions' in walking distance.
OTherwise everyone prefers to live in the suburbs, which just creates traffic.
It's easy to say 'what about the High Street shops, but most of those are beyond help.
People want to spend their cash in car-free shopping malls and out of town sheds.
I've lived in a couple of cities, if you want people to do that, you have to make it worth their while, lots of 'attractions' in walking distance.
OTherwise everyone prefers to live in the suburbs, which just creates traffic.
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