Cloning Monkeys
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-679...
This was a difficult read, and surprising as I would have thought this was illegal/unethical given the animals are so closely related to humans.
Any views?
This was a difficult read, and surprising as I would have thought this was illegal/unethical given the animals are so closely related to humans.
Any views?
I work in drug development - as the article says there is no better way to test something than with a perfect duplicate. Even in humans the best we have is to do trials on identical twins.
Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
fasimew said:
It died of old age I believe. Although it was relatively young, the base material was an old sheep, and hence the new sheep was biologically the same age.
Crazy how much media attention Dolly generated, I was relatively young but still remember the huge debates around it.Now almost 30 years later, I've never heard or read of any advancements in cloning or particular commercial or research uses?
fasimew said:
It died of old age I believe. Although it was relatively young, the base material was an old sheep, and hence the new sheep was biologically the same age.
Not sure I get that - physically her cells were as old as a normal sheep that was born from an embryo, do you mean that the source DNA had decayed because it was from an older sheep? DNA doesn't store the host's 'age' in it, as such.ScotHill said:
fasimew said:
It died of old age I believe. Although it was relatively young, the base material was an old sheep, and hence the new sheep was biologically the same age.
Not sure I get that - physically her cells were as old as a normal sheep that was born from an embryo, do you mean that the source DNA had decayed because it was from an older sheep? DNA doesn't store the host's 'age' in it, as such.Jaska said:
I work in drug development - as the article says there is no better way to test something than with a perfect duplicate. Even in humans the best we have is to do trials on identical twins.
Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
This is China - I'm sure nothing will go to waste......Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Jaska said:
I work in drug development - as the article says there is no better way to test something than with a perfect duplicate. Even in humans the best we have is to do trials on identical twins.
Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Why is it beneficial to test on cloned monkeys or identical human twins. Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to test a drug on a range of people with different genetics, sizes, diets or lifestyles. Wouldnt that give you far better data and understanding of how it would work in the real world?Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Genuinely interested.
Lots of animals have been cloned
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15097-7
In the US used to clone pets.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15097-7
In the US used to clone pets.
Flumpo said:
Jaska said:
I work in drug development - as the article says there is no better way to test something than with a perfect duplicate. Even in humans the best we have is to do trials on identical twins.
Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Why is it beneficial to test on cloned monkeys or identical human twins. Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to test a drug on a range of people with different genetics, sizes, diets or lifestyles. Wouldnt that give you far better data and understanding of how it would work in the real world?Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Genuinely interested.
Monkey A gets vacinne monkey B gets nothing.
A gets noticeably better quick/doesn't get infected etc while B gets sick or dies etc. Then you know it was the vaccine and not the broad range of different immune systems.
We now know A 100% works and it cant be any other thing such as different immune systems. So plan towards human trials etc.
ScotHill said:
fasimew said:
It died of old age I believe. Although it was relatively young, the base material was an old sheep, and hence the new sheep was biologically the same age.
Not sure I get that - physically her cells were as old as a normal sheep that was born from an embryo, do you mean that the source DNA had decayed because it was from an older sheep? DNA doesn't store the host's 'age' in it, as such.The nucleus contains chromosomes on which the genes are located. At the ‘ends’ of chromosomes there are sequences of DNA called telomeres which are linked to ages and which get shorter each time a cell divides.
Those shortened telomeres from the living ‘donor’ sheep would have been ‘carried through’ into the clone,
hotchy said:
Flumpo said:
Jaska said:
I work in drug development - as the article says there is no better way to test something than with a perfect duplicate. Even in humans the best we have is to do trials on identical twins.
Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Why is it beneficial to test on cloned monkeys or identical human twins. Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to test a drug on a range of people with different genetics, sizes, diets or lifestyles. Wouldnt that give you far better data and understanding of how it would work in the real world?Athough it arguably isn't good per say to clone stuff, statistically making 15 of these cloned monkeys could save us testing something on 300 non cloned monkeys, and in a fair amount of animal studies you kill the animal at the end.
Obviously I don't know how many monkeys will die to make 15 cloned monkeys etc etc so it's all nicely ethically a grey area and in China that almost always makes something OK to do
N. B. And of course all countries have their own ethics boards, drug approval requirements, research bodies etc and all of them have different rules. I know of a fair few drugs that are approved for use in Scotland but not in England for example despite it all going through the NHS they have different approval teams
Genuinely interested.
Monkey A gets vacinne monkey B gets nothing.
A gets noticeably better quick/doesn't get infected etc while B gets sick or dies etc. Then you know it was the vaccine and not the broad range of different immune systems.
We now know A 100% works and it cant be any other thing such as different immune systems. So plan towards human trials etc.
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