Albion and Bulwark to be decommissioned?

[glazbagun]

Despite being fairly modern I find it surprising that they've been fighting the knife for so long, given the use we got out of HMS Ocean. I thought they'd be a pretty useful general peacetime warship.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-marines-e...

Are their peacetime roles being taken up by the Carriers/Type 45's now, or is the RN going to be cut to a carrier group split across the world?

[Getragdogleg]

If there is cut backs and decommissioning happening it must be about time to have another war or skirmish that will require as much kit as we can get our hands on.

Normally the timing on getting rid of stuff works out badly.

See also throwing away stuff that will "come in handy one day".

[Eric Mc]

Money - plain and simple.

[Getragdogleg]

Eric Mc said:

Money - plain and simple.

Sell em cheap, buy new ones with borrowed money later.

[aeropilot]

glazbagun said:

Despite being fairly modern I find it surprising that they've been fighting the knife for so long, given the use we got out of HMS Ocean. I thought they'd be a pretty useful general peacetime warship.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-marines-e...

Are their peacetime roles being taken up by the Carriers/Type 45's now, or is the RN going to be cut to a carrier group split across the world?

The RN simply doesn't have the manpower.

The RN has halved in size in manpower number in the last 30 years, and shrunk in fleet size in just frigates/destroyers from 50 odd to soon to be just 9 in the same time period....although, that 9 should be 15 or 16 by the middle of next decade once all the new Type 23's come into service (if there is enough manpower to man them of course by then)

[bitchstewie]

This was on LBC earlier.

From what I think caught it seems the Navy has a bit of a recruitment problem where younger people just don't want to do that sort of thing.

[Dingu]

bhstewie said:

This was on LBC earlier.

From what I think caught it seems the Navy has a bit of a recruitment problem where younger people just don't want to do that sort of thing.

Not sure I blame them. When was the last worthwhile war? The Afghanistan and Iraq nonsense certainly wasn’t.

[valiant]

Was reading about this yesterday and there seems to be some sort of issue with the whole recruitment process with delays between those youngsters applying and actually starting their training.

If you’re left dangling at 16 or 17 for an indeterminate amount of time you’ll soon explore other options away from the services.

Retention of existing troops also seems to be a major problem as well.

[Gecko1978]

Genuine question what's the money like in the Navy. I know pre covid Aldi were paying graduates £39k and I think they got a car too. This was one of the best schemes for graduates at the time.

So how does pay in the Navy compare, what skills will you get (that you might use outside of the Navy). Do you get to travel the world or do you spend alot of time on shore. Is it a case of being screamed at by drill instructors 24/7 etc.

The adverts seems to show a career that was exciting and focused on getting fit, but honestly young people still need money to buy a house etc.

[aeropilot]

bhstewie said:

This was on LBC earlier.

From what I think caught it seems the Navy has a bit of a recruitment problem where younger people just don't want to do that sort of thing.

Been that way for some considerable time now.

And they have to find the manpower for the carriers which has forced cuts to other ship types in the fleet.....well, fleet is hardly worthy of the term these days.

[Earthdweller]

I read a couple of things in the last few days about staff shortages in the military/navy

The RN is withdrawing two frigates early because of crew shortages ( can’t remember their names off the top of my head )

It’s the same in Australia

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/defence/fr...

And quite remarkably in Ireland the Naval Service only has enough crew members to put one of their nine ships to sea and they state if they lose anymore staff they won’t even be able to put that one ship out!

You couldn’t make it up

Also reported that serving Royal Marines are being offered cash payments if they can persuade people they know to join up

I’m just really really glad that the world is far more stable and peaceful than it has been for decades

[Gecko1978]

Earthdweller said:

I read a couple of things in the last few days about staff shortages in the military/navy

The RN is withdrawing two frigates early because of crew shortages ( can’t remember their names off the top of my head )

It’s the same in Australia

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/defence/fr...

And quite remarkably in Ireland the Naval Service only has enough crew members to put one of their nine ships to sea and they state if they lose anymore staff they won’t even be able to put that one ship out!

You couldn’t make it up

Also reported that serving Royal Marines are being offered cash payments if they can persuade people they know to join up

I’m just really really glad that the world is far more stable and peaceful than it has been for decades

The cash payments for recruiting is common in the private sector too. All too often I have found a loop hole is exercised for not giving you the money mind you lol.

[Evanivitch]

Replacement has been under discussion for some time under the MultiRole Support Ship project. Obviously, there'll be a capability gap for the RM.

https://www.forces.net/nato/uk-and-netherlands-50t...

[aeropilot]

Earthdweller said:

I read a couple of things in the last few days about staff shortages in the military/navy

The RN is withdrawing two frigates early because of crew shortages ( can’t remember their names off the top of my head )

HMS Argyll and HMS Westminster, the latter having just recently finished a multi-million pound refit, which is in the best traditions of the MOD, spend a fortune on something, then sell/retire/close it down.

The other thing about Grant sts making this decision on retiring Bulwalk and Albion is that it pretty much will likely mean the end of the RM as its been since the end of WW2, as without them, there's very little reason for them to exist.

Earthdweller said:

I’m just really really glad that the world is far more stable and peaceful than it has been for decades

Indeed, its such a relief that is the case.

[hidetheelephants]

Presumably Michael Green has magically eliminated the need for amphibious capability, which is a surprise given most of our allies and potential opponents are busy building amphibious capability.

[Evanivitch]

hidetheelephants said:

Presumably Michael Green has magically eliminated the need for amphibious capability, which is a surprise given most of our allies and potential opponents are busy building amphibious capability.

It's a bit like asking when was the last time the Parachute regiment jumped into action.

Al-Faw, 2003.

[hidetheelephants]

You might as well ask when most of the RN was last required; it's insurance. Got a crystal ball handy?

Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 6th January 15:57

[vaud]

Dingu said:

Not sure I blame them. When was the last worthwhile war? The Afghanistan and Iraq nonsense certainly wasn’t.

I'm past the age to serve now but if I was 18 again and considering a career now I think the Navy would be high on my list, something along the lines of weapons / radar tech... something that after serving I could then convert to working at BAE, etc.

I don't think people sign up to have a good "war" - i think they sign up to serve. I went through officer screening when I was 19 for the Army's RLC and it was not because I wanted to go to war.

[98elise]

Gecko1978 said:

Genuine question what's the money like in the Navy. I know pre covid Aldi were paying graduates £39k and I think they got a car too. This was one of the best schemes for graduates at the time.

So how does pay in the Navy compare, what skills will you get (that you might use outside of the Navy). Do you get to travel the world or do you spend alot of time on shore. Is it a case of being screamed at by drill instructors 24/7 etc.

The adverts seems to show a career that was exciting and focused on getting fit, but honestly young people still need money to buy a house etc.

I was in the RN for 8 years. It was a long time ago but not much has changed.

Pay is pretty average given the hours you will put in, and the time you will spend away from home. When I left I was a Petty Officer (like a Sergeant) walked into a Maintenance Managers job on similar money with with a company car. I later went into IT and was earning multiples of my military pay.

My training was pretty good (Weapon Engineering) but only the basic principals were any good for a civilian job. There isn't much call for Phalanx Weapons System maintainers in rural Kent

As to travel, time ashore etc it's variable and depends on your branch and specific role. Every 2-3 years you will be drafted to a new role, alternating between sea and shore.

Shore roles are usually pretty much like a civilian job. 9-5 with weekends off.

When you're drafted to a ship you will have a variety time on exercises, foreign trips and maintenance periods alongside (Ie home port). At sea you will be working fairly hard (often 12 hour days) and a ship runs 24/7 as you would imagine. Its branch specific though As a Weapons Engineer though my time was pretty much a standard working day. Marine Engineers work all hours. World travel was pretty good in my day. I did a 6 month world tour on Ark Royal to Australia (Outback 88) taking in Malta, Singapore, Philippines, India, Hong Kong plus multiple ports in Australia. Mrs 98elise flew out to Singapore and I got 16 days leave

As to being shouted at 24/7, beyond basic training the Navy really isn't like that. It's far more laid back from a military point of view. You're expected to show up on time and get on with your job with very little direct supervision. The discipline is more about teamwork and professionalism. It's still there though if you can't get your st together!

The vast majority of Navy personnel will have a trade/career of some sorts because ships have to function as ships even when not at war.

It's not always hard work though....





Edited to add....

I just looked up pay rates. Starting salary as a rating (non officer) is 18k, moving up to 23k after 6 months. Petty Officer pay is 42k. Commissioned Officers start at 37k.

Obviously senior officers Captains, Commodores, Admirals etc earn much more but thats not an average RN job

Edited by 98elise on Saturday 6th January 17:42

[Gecko1978]

Many thanks elise for that insight at 45 my days of joining the services are way past me but I did consider the Army when I was 16 fearing I might only get 4 Gcse's and a career any career was better than just a job. In the end I did a levels uni city path but have met a few people who have served in various branches earlier in their lives and part of me has always felt it was a great move for them (to be fair all of them skipped uni and got skills etc in the forces).

18k is a barrier when minimum wage is 22k but I think you need to look at the whole package v thinking about paying finance on a 2 series via a Mcjob.

Still seems like the government don't want to pay for a large military (we have a huge health service to focus on I guess).