Dutch'exit

[julian987R]

Now a certainty in light of this evenings news.

[Square Leg]

Nexit?

[Carl_VivaEspana]

Beyond the wailing of the left, it's a bit like the Argentinian situation, PR will moderate the tone and the laws that can be passed.

[Ian Geary]

Square Leg said:

Nexit?

Yep, that's the phrase.

Next is by no means a certainty, as the leader of that party has admitted there's no mood for it.

Plus proportional representation in their Parliament system means government is a huge compromise and balancing act.

I think more focus should be placed on his anti Islam stance - ie banning mosques and schools - than his Nexit ideas.


A swing to the political right isn't unheard of. The votes ukip got several years ago were basically a protest vote, and there's also been something recent I. Argentina.

However, given the Dutch know they have PR, I wonder if the votes for Wilders could be a form of protest vote? Knowing that he will be moderated in his actions by the rest of parliament.

[JagLover]

julian987R said:

Now a certainty in light of this evenings news.

Now still unlikely in the light of this evening's news as the man himself has already said that though he wants a referendum there isn't a "national mood" to do so.

The Dutch are growing increasingly unhappy with globalist politicians. First the Farmers party and now the PVV are benefiting from that.

[YorkshireStu]

I lived on and off in Amsterdam for 3 years after Brexit and they were watching closely.

Today the verdict is: what a catastrophe.

So unlikely then

What they will do is push back strongly against stuff they don’t like - as other Members do and the meek UK didn’t.

[Earthdweller]

We are seeing a general pushback by voters against the status quo

Holland is no exception, people aren’t happy with the green agenda, federalism, immigration and we are seeing it right across Europe and beyond

So yes it’s a protest vote, but one which if unheeded will continue to grow

We are seeing border controls going up, this week in France they are proposing massively cutting immigration and removing benefits from undocumented migrants such as any right to medical treatment

Whether we like it or not things are changing, the people are signalling they don’t like the direction

Nexit?

Not a chance as the Benelux countries were the bedrock of integration but it should be yet another wake up call for the politicians

Will they listen though ?

[Lefty]

I don’t think it’s a certainty at all, wilders wants a referendum but my experience of the Dutch (admittedly the middle class professional types) is that they’re generally quite liberal and almost socialist.

Edited by Lefty on Thursday 23 November 07:57

[GT03ROB]

Earthdweller said:

We are seeing a general pushback by voters against the status quo

Holland is no exception, people aren’t happy with the green agenda, federalism, immigration and we are seeing it right across Europe and beyond

So yes it’s a protest vote, but one which if unheeded will continue to grow

but it should be yet another wake up call for the politicians

Will they listen though ?

Nope, not a chance. They never do until eventually something cracks.

Brexit didn't happen because the politicians were listening. Trump didn't get elected because the politicians were listening

[S600BSB]

YorkshireStu said:

I lived on and off in Amsterdam for 3 years after Brexit and they were watching closely.

Today the verdict is: what a catastrophe.

So unlikely then

What they will do is push back strongly against stuff they don’t like - as other Members do and the meek UK didn’t.

They will look at the damage Brexit is doing here and say no thanks. You’d have to be mad.

[Murph7355]

julian987R said:

Now a certainty in light of this evenings news.

No chance.

Any country in the Euro won't leave. And there are plenty of tangible benefits for the Dutch in being members.

What this may do, however, is test PR and what happens when a party is "sidelined" over electoral cycles (for want of a better term) for a while.

As ever, the EU does need to adapt and it needs to quickly start being much more honest and forthright. As ever, it won't.

[Ivan stewart]

S600BSB said:

YorkshireStu said:

I lived on and off in Amsterdam for 3 years after Brexit and they were watching closely.

Today the verdict is: what a catastrophe.

So unlikely then

What they will do is push back strongly against stuff they don’t like - as other Members do and the meek UK didn’t.

They will look at the damage Brexit is doing here and say no thanks. You’d have to be mad.

Damage !!!

[YorkshireStu]

S600BSB said:

They will look at the damage Brexit is doing here and say no thanks. You’d have to be mad.

Absolutely. The UK has kindly shown the EU Member States what happens when you act stupidly and the result has calmed all but, very much a minority, of hard-like idiots.

What Wilder will be able to do though is disagree with EU policies his Government don’t like and so shape direction. A Democratic process.

[Earthdweller]

GT03ROB said:

Nope, not a chance. They never do until eventually something cracks.

Brexit didn't happen because the politicians were listening. Trump didn't get elected because the politicians were listening

True very true

https://x.com/guyverhofstadt/status/17273428430927...

And Tusk on the same subject

https://brusselssignal.eu/2023/11/tusk-to-oppose-e...

Edited by Earthdweller on Thursday 23 November 08:39

[Crippo]

Why is it deemed a protest vote? Isn’t that rather disrespectful? To claim that people who vote for alternatives are only lending their votes as a bit of a protest.
Anyone who makes that claim and then claims that politian’s never listen should perhaps look a little closer to home to understand ….they may find that they are, themselves hypocritical a holes

[funinhounslow]

YorkshireStu said:

I lived on and off in Amsterdam for 3 years after Brexit and they were watching closely.

Today the verdict is: what a catastrophe.

So unlikely then

What they will do is push back strongly against stuff they don’t like - as other Members do and the meek UK didn’t.

Surely the other way around? When in the EU we had opt outs from Schengen, monetary union and justice and home affairs.

I think the UK constantly “pushing back” was a major thorn in the side of the EU.

[captain_cynic]

GT03ROB said:

Nope, not a chance. They never do until eventually something cracks.

Brexit didn't happen because the politicians were listening. Trump didn't get elected because the politicians were listening

Yep both happened because of a concerted disinformation campaign, both resulted in massive damage to their respective countries.

Both were (and remain) utter failures.

This is a different scenario as he hasn't actually won anything. the PVV has 37 out of the required 76 seats to form a government. Few of the other parties are interested in working with them. The centre left took 2nd place with 25 seats, the centre right took 3rd with 24 and are unlikely to work with PVV, even if they did they're still 15 seats short of a majority. The Dutch have a proper multi-party parliament requiring governments to form coalitions.

So all they have the power to do is make it difficult to pass legislation.

So much like Argentina, it's a lot of noise over a complete nothingburger. Both have failed to gain a majority in their respective parliaments.

What is interesting to note, Wilders toned down his rhetoric in order to win votes. Whether this continues remains to be seen. In either case, I think the Netherlands will be fine but needs to learn for themselves that electing demagogues doesn't work.

[RizzoTheRat]

With PR and 15 different parties to vote for I think the concept of a protest vote is much less of a thing than in the UK. Most people can find a party that have a reasonable amount of common ground with. They'll need the VVD in a coalition, and thier leader is of Turkish origin so may temper some of the more extreme policies...although in the UK it's Braverman and Patel who are pushing the idea of sending immigrants to Rwanda so maybe not.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 23 November 08:53

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Crippo said:

Why is it deemed a protest vote? Isn’t that rather disrespectful? To claim that people who vote for alternatives are only lending their votes as a bit of a protest.
Anyone who makes that claim and then claims that politian’s never listen should perhaps look a little closer to home to understand ….they may find that they are, themselves hypocritical a holes

Probably because people on whatever side of the coin like to think that the other side isn't as <insert reason> as them.

[Ziplobb]

super bring it on Europe is finally waking up