Javier Milei wins Argentina election

[RichTT]

Not seen any discussion on here about this.

Javier Milei - Libertarian, ancap. Plans to abolish the Argentine central bank, dollarize the country and cut Government spending. Hopefully diverting Argentina away from the corrosive grip of self-destructuve socialism.

I'm hopeful he can achieve this, for my Argentine friends, but best to judge by results, not intentions when it comes to government policy.

The main stream press are of course having had a field day declaring him Far-Right, and various other Trump-esque epithets.

[caziques]

One prerequisite for a successful economy is sound money with low inflation. As the Argentinian central bank has not achieved this, getting rid of it and using the US dollar sounds like a good idea.

[105.4]

It seems to me that anyone who isn’t going to automatically and intentionally screw their country over is labelled as “far right”.

It’s almost as if it’s a badge of honour to be so


I know nothing of Javier Milei, but I’m going to take a guess that he isn’t “far right” at all.

[Alickadoo]

Will he want to re-invade/re-possess the Falklands?

[Ian Geary]

Often, the media's use of "far right" just means far right of them

Low tax low spend isn't far right
Reigning back government institutions isn't far right

But both are right wing political views.

Far right would be
- authoritarian
- ultra nationalistic (though with Argentina, what's their normal level of nationalistic?)

Though there isn't enough information on this chap to quickly determine why he's got this far right label.

I wonder what will happen with respect to the Falklands?

If he starts banging on about freedom for "la malvinas" then it will be a clear signal he hasn't got a clue what he's doing. It's like Trump's wall - a meaningless rallying cry.

[hairykrishna]

My Argentinian friend thinks the bloke's barking mad and he thinks many other Argentinians do too. But it's a choice between someone who has had a big part in crashing their economy, someone who was part of the last lot that crashed their economy and this loon.

I think the 'far right' label mostly comes from his fairly extreme views on abortion and the fact that he seemingly blames 'Marxists' for literally everything.

[alfaspecial]

Obviously as Argentina is the other side of the world and we (The UK) have only two real connections (The Falklands War and corned beef!) news of the Argentine elections / economy are not really debated much in the UK media.

It's always interesting to read another countries news through 'their' media.

The (Argentine) English language newspaper https://buenosairesherald.com/ uses terms like far right and libertarian in the same sort of frequency that The Independent (newspaper website) uses terms like Brexiteer, far right, little Englander etc!

[Earthdweller]

Your Argentine friends may have a point

His legions of fans call him “the crazy” and “the wig” due to his ferocity and unruly mop of hair, while he refers to himself as “the lion.” He thinks sex education is a Marxist plot to destroy the family, views his cloned mastiffs as his “children with four paws” and has raised the possibility people should be allowed to sell their own vital organs. He is Javier Milei, Argentina’s next president.

A self-described “anarcho-capitalist,” Milei’s libertarianism was a novelty for Argentina. He has spoken in favor of loosening the country’s labor laws and promoted a vision of starkly smaller government to boost economic growth. That entails eliminating half of the government ministries, including health and education. As a symbol of the deep cuts he champions, he has at times campaigned with a revving chainsaw in hand.

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231120-chai...

[tangerine_sedge]

RichTT said:

Not seen any discussion on here about this.

Javier Milei - Libertarian, ancap. Plans to abolish the Argentine central bank, dollarize the country and cut Government spending. Hopefully diverting Argentina away from the corrosive grip of self-destructuve socialism.

I'm hopeful he can achieve this, for my Argentine friends, but best to judge by results, not intentions when it comes to government policy.

The main stream press are of course having had a field day declaring him Far-Right, and various other Trump-esque epithets.

It's not just the BBC that has labelled him far-right though, it's also CNN, Reuters, Le Figaro, The Financial Times, Al Jazeera, The Economist, Le Monde, The New York times, and.....drum roll.... The Daily Mail.

[Square Leg]

Just been watching some of his interviews.
He’s very, um - frank - as politicians go

Doesn’t beat about the bush…

[rodericb]

Ian Geary said:

Often, the media's use of "far right" just means far right of them

Low tax low spend isn't far right
Reigning back government institutions isn't far right

But both are right wing political views.

Far right would be
- authoritarian
- ultra nationalistic (though with Argentina, what's their normal level of nationalistic?)

Though there isn't enough information on this chap to quickly determine why he's got this far right label.

I wonder what will happen with respect to the Falklands?

If he starts banging on about freedom for "la malvinas" then it will be a clear signal he hasn't got a clue what he's doing. It's like Trump's wall - a meaningless rallying cry.

All those people who lived in communist regimes might want to have a word with you about authoritarianism and ultra nationalism being the sole preserve of the "far right". At least they can't complain about the low tax spend as they barely got paid money in the first place to be taxed on and those centrally planned economies only had a skeleton staff running them.....

[greygoose]

Image based on the Wolverine and Elvis and nickname of El Loco, no wonder Argentina has the most psychologists per capita in the world!

[RizzoTheRat]

I think most people would class a politician who wants to relax gun laws, ban abortion and legalise selling organs as somewhere right of center.

But presumably its trying to sort out the economy which is why people voted for him

[DeejRC]

I’m pondering if the decision to sell one of your organs is left or right wing…
Personally I’d just go with: desperate.

[sugerbear]

Earthdweller said:

Your Argentine friends may have a point

His legions of fans call him “the crazy” and “the wig” due to his ferocity and unruly mop of hair, while he refers to himself as “the lion.” He thinks sex education is a Marxist plot to destroy the family, views his cloned mastiffs as his “children with four paws” and has raised the possibility people should be allowed to sell their own vital organs. He is Javier Milei, Argentina’s next president.

A self-described “anarcho-capitalist,” Milei’s libertarianism was a novelty for Argentina. He has spoken in favor of loosening the country’s labor laws and promoted a vision of starkly smaller government to boost economic growth. That entails eliminating half of the government ministries, including health and education. As a symbol of the deep cuts he champions, he has at times campaigned with a revving chainsaw in hand.

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231120-chai...

It's always health and education with some religious stuff thrown in. while conveniently ignoring the military spending of over 2 billion per year. Much less an anarchy-capitalist more an oppo-tunist.

[BikeBikeBIke]

RizzoTheRat said:

I think most people would class a politician who wants to relax gun laws, ban abortion and legalise selling organs as somewhere right of center.

There's nothing remotely 'right' wing about any of those things. A left wing or communist government could do all three and probably have.

The truth is left and right mean almost nothing except in a very limited economic sense. We should stop using the terms they are rarely/never helpful.

[Byker28i]

alfaspecial said:

Obviously as Argentina is the other side of the world and we (The UK) have only two real connections (The Falklands War and corned beef!) news of the Argentine elections / economy are not really debated much in the UK media.

It's always interesting to read another countries news through 'their' media.

The (Argentine) English language newspaper https://buenosairesherald.com/ uses terms like far right and libertarian in the same sort of frequency that The Independent (newspaper website) uses terms like Brexiteer, far right, little Englander etc!

The Falklands have much more going on than just Corned beef and a war 40 years ago. For some time the argentinians have been overfishing and some claim poaching the lucrative squid, in a govt driven policy to put further economic strain onto the islanders

[RichTT]

Square Leg said:

Just been watching some of his interviews.
He’s very, um - frank - as politicians go

Doesn’t beat about the bush…

This is a man who called his dogs after the original Conan and the economists Murray Rothbard, Milton Friedman, and Robert Lucas.

His views on the socialist decline of a once very rich and prosperous nation are... well, a brief summation:

Javier Milei, an Argentine economist and politician, is a staunch critic of socialism and often uses harsh language to describe socialists in media interviews. He has called them "brutes" and "ignorant," and has accused them of being motivated by envy and resentment.

Milei's criticisms of socialism are rooted in his strong belief in capitalism and individual liberty. He argues that socialism is a system of oppression that stifles economic growth and personal freedom. He believes that capitalism, on the other hand, is the only system that can create prosperity and opportunity for all.

Milei's views on socialism are controversial, and he has been accused of being a demagogue and a fascist. However, he remains a popular figure in Argentina, and his criticisms of socialism resonate with many voters.

Here are some specific examples of how Milei has described socialists in media interviews:

In an interview with The Economist in September 2023, Milei said that socialists are "brutes" and "ignorant" who "do not have a good base of micro-foundations" and "have no knowledge of finance."

In an interview with Tucker Carlson in September 2023, Milei said that socialism is an "economic, social, and cultural failure" that has "murdered 150 million human beings."

In a speech to supporters in October 2023, Milei said that socialism is a "disease" that must be "eradicated."

Milei's criticisms of socialism are often harsh and inflammatory, but they are also a reflection of his strong belief in capitalism and individual liberty. He believes that socialism is a system that is fundamentally incompatible with freedom and prosperity, and he is determined to fight against its spread.

[President Merkin]

RizzoTheRat said:

I think most people would class a politician who wants to relax gun laws, ban abortion and legalise selling organs as somewhere right of center.

But presumably its trying to sort out the economy which is why people voted for him

I think that encapsulates it neatly. Argentina suffers from long Peronism. Decades of economic mismanagement centred around a huge welfare state, nationalism & economic isolation, cutting itself off from international trade. Peronists have run the place for 16 out of the past 20 years. The upshot is a nation of subsidy addicted people where a third of the working population works for the state, pay about a fifth of what Europeans do on utilities & take generous pensions.

In turn,all that led to 140% inflation, a de facto dollar economy where saving in Pesos is ruinous & money changers line the streets. Whether Milei is the answer remains to be seen. He at least acknowledges the economic stink. On the other hand he's a climate denier, in favour of banning abortion in any circumstances including rape and supports prostutuion & trade in human organs. In short, more than a bit unhinged but might make a dent in the economy. I suspect the cure may be worse than the disease, the situation is far more nuanced than reductive left vs right schtick.

[JagLover]

RizzoTheRat said:

I think most people would class a politician who wants to relax gun laws, ban abortion and legalise selling organs as somewhere right of center.

But presumably its trying to sort out the economy which is why people voted for him

I think people object more to the term "far-right" being thrown around with abandon. There is a clear ideology for the far-right and often those accused of this are either libertarians or conservatives.