Discussion
Seems our young are headed for middle age before they start to contribute anything to society,swaning about in universities getting a pointless degree and then a bog standard job in their twenties, wouldn’t it be better if most kid’s left school at 16 worked and did part time further education?
Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
I agree.
The vast majority never needed a degree and weren't capable of getting one. We've given them all one by dropping the standards. So now they don't really have one. They are just three or four years older when they leave school, potentially hugely indebted for nothing.
Why did we do it?
The vast majority never needed a degree and weren't capable of getting one. We've given them all one by dropping the standards. So now they don't really have one. They are just three or four years older when they leave school, potentially hugely indebted for nothing.
Why did we do it?
I'm an IT Man and i've not got a degree, I earn more than most at my age.
Worked up the slippery slope of IT Support, shaved a lot and put a smile on and then got into higher more responsible roles through trust/experience.
I work with a hell of a lot of academics now who are either the same age or younger and they are so wet around the ears in how to work the corporate jungle still its ridiculous.
I'm also hoping that starting work 3/4 years earlier will mean I can retire said amount before others.
Worked up the slippery slope of IT Support, shaved a lot and put a smile on and then got into higher more responsible roles through trust/experience.
I work with a hell of a lot of academics now who are either the same age or younger and they are so wet around the ears in how to work the corporate jungle still its ridiculous.
I'm also hoping that starting work 3/4 years earlier will mean I can retire said amount before others.
Ivan stewart said:
Seems our young are headed for middle age before they start to contribute anything to society,swaning about in universities getting a pointless degree and then a bog standard job in their twenties, wouldn’t it be better if most kid’s left school at 16 worked and did part time further education?
Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
As noted, 22 is not middle age. At that stage the brain is not yet fully formed, so you could argue they are still children at that age!Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
University is much more than just the degree, for many it's the experience of independence. It gets young people out from under their parents wings and they learn a lot outside of the lectures and seminars they attend. In a time when many under 35s are still living with their parents, it's a formative learning opportunity.
The issue is that it's a way too expensive. I was lucky, tution fees were £9k for the whole thing back then.
My father in law did a degree apprenticeship in accountancy in the 50’s.
There are plenty of degree apprenticeships around today for those who want to work and learn.
Plus ca change!
I am a huge supporter of university as a means of teaching kids how to think: how to look at primary sources, critically evaluate and understand a subject. In a world of AI and information being ever less trust worthy, this is a skill which is going to be increasingly essential as a means to navigate a professional world.
The debt and the fees are a means of grinding down social mobility and for that we should all be ashamed.
There are plenty of degree apprenticeships around today for those who want to work and learn.
Plus ca change!
I am a huge supporter of university as a means of teaching kids how to think: how to look at primary sources, critically evaluate and understand a subject. In a world of AI and information being ever less trust worthy, this is a skill which is going to be increasingly essential as a means to navigate a professional world.
The debt and the fees are a means of grinding down social mobility and for that we should all be ashamed.
Pebbles167 said:
I'm 34, and it's been happening at least since I was at school, so nothing new.
If anything, based on my annecdotal evidence, more young people are going into apprenticeships and fewer are getting pointless degrees than they were in previous years.
If anything, based on my annecdotal evidence, more young people are going into apprenticeships and fewer are getting pointless degrees than they were in previous years.
Yes it does seem to be getting better ,
It still seems schools are telling the kids they have failed if they don’t go to uni , but that seems more about their egos and less about what’s best for the students..
Ivan stewart said:
Seems our young are headed for middle age before they start to contribute anything to society,swaning about in universities getting a pointless degree and then a bog standard job in their twenties, wouldn’t it be better if most kid’s left school at 16 worked and did part time further education?
Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
And don't forget the "year out" to go to Vietnam, but you wont understand because you weren't there. Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
I agree with you and it always strikes me at a bit odd when people who have only been in work for ten minutes complain they can't afford to buy a house.
MikeM6 said:
As noted, 22 is not middle age. At that stage the brain is not yet fully formed, so you could argue they are still children at that age!
University is much more than just the degree, for many it's the experience of independence. It gets young people out from under their parents wings and they learn a lot outside of the lectures and seminars they attend. In a time when many under 35s are still living with their parents, it's a formative learning opportunity.
The issue is that it's a way too expensive. I was lucky, tution fees were £9k for the whole thing back then.
We could bring back national service instead.University is much more than just the degree, for many it's the experience of independence. It gets young people out from under their parents wings and they learn a lot outside of the lectures and seminars they attend. In a time when many under 35s are still living with their parents, it's a formative learning opportunity.
The issue is that it's a way too expensive. I was lucky, tution fees were £9k for the whole thing back then.
I am alright Jack said:
Ivan stewart said:
Seems our young are headed for middle age before they start to contribute anything to society,swaning about in universities getting a pointless degree and then a bog standard job in their twenties, wouldn’t it be better if most kid’s left school at 16 worked and did part time further education?
Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
And don't forget the "year out" to go to Vietnam, but you wont understand because you weren't there. Keep sending the very best to the red brick university’s and turn the others back into technical colleges??
I agree with you and it always strikes me at a bit odd when people who have only been in work for ten minutes complain they can't afford to buy a house.
Ivan stewart said:
Yes it does seem to be getting better ,
It still seems schools are telling the kids they have failed if they don’t go to uni.
Not just schools, but the majority of employers and non-manual labour society. There’s folk out there who are aghast when they find out you didn’t go to university.It still seems schools are telling the kids they have failed if they don’t go to uni.
As for kids and starting work, I’d suggest it would be better if those wanting to go into the trades could do so at 14. Do three days a week on the job, proper ten hour working days, and three days a week at a technical college focusing on theory work.
OP you will be heartened to learn then, that neither of my boys (twins 33) did the uni thing, both left school at 16.
One got an apprenticeship as a plant mechanic and then worked in the mines in Aus for a couple of years. Now working at Hinkley point earning crazy money. Knocked out a couple of kids and has managed to stay in the town he was brought up in.
Other one got into IT via working in a local call center. Earns 40k+, is as happy as Larry. Both him and wife have no plans for kids, just loads of big holidays, a couple of dogs and he owns more motorbikes than me.
He has also managed to stay in the town he was brought up in.
Very few of their mates did the uni thing and only one that i can think of really benefited from it.
Neither myself (ex postman/HGV driver) or Mrs Marky (Band 6 nurse) did Uni and i cant recall any of my mates doing it back in the 70s.
One got an apprenticeship as a plant mechanic and then worked in the mines in Aus for a couple of years. Now working at Hinkley point earning crazy money. Knocked out a couple of kids and has managed to stay in the town he was brought up in.
Other one got into IT via working in a local call center. Earns 40k+, is as happy as Larry. Both him and wife have no plans for kids, just loads of big holidays, a couple of dogs and he owns more motorbikes than me.
He has also managed to stay in the town he was brought up in. Very few of their mates did the uni thing and only one that i can think of really benefited from it.
Neither myself (ex postman/HGV driver) or Mrs Marky (Band 6 nurse) did Uni and i cant recall any of my mates doing it back in the 70s.
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