Two years for killing someone, what is going on?
Discussion
Jails are full. Have been for years. Tougher sentencing and no more jails being built (and prison staff being laid off) means they're jam packed.
https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-kingd...
https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-kingd...
Two 12 year olds accused of killing a 19 year old from the same article.
https://news.sky.com/story/shawn-seesahai-death-tw...
https://news.sky.com/story/shawn-seesahai-death-tw...
On the surface it’s a joke. Sentencing needs explaining. What message does it can pass to the youth? I read a lot saying imprisonment doesn’t work but how can we carry on leaving in society with scum like this? I don’t know about you but never in my youth I considered throwing a punch to an old person or just being offensive or intimidating. What a coward!
It’s easy to start stereotyping the youth, broken family, single mother, etc but how is this behaviour acceptable? It really shouldn’t be, not if we want to live in a better society. Manners, respect for others and just being a decent person have nothing to do with social economical status. It’s taught at home, by example.
It’s easy to start stereotyping the youth, broken family, single mother, etc but how is this behaviour acceptable? It really shouldn’t be, not if we want to live in a better society. Manners, respect for others and just being a decent person have nothing to do with social economical status. It’s taught at home, by example.
CPS said:
Andrew Baxter, from the Crown Prosecution Service, said: "Dennis Clarke's tragic death was the result of this young person's intimidating and aggressive behaviour, refusing to back down and not knowing when to walk away.
"Mr Clarke was within his rights to challenge the behaviour and had then gone about his business, assuming that the incident was concluded.
"Moumeche chose to confront him at the bus station, behaving in an aggressive and intimidating way to a man in his 80s who posed no threat.
"He then threw a punch which led to the death of an elderly and innocent man, and a family grieving a much-loved family member and respected member of the community."
Yet he will be released to carry on with life at 20 years old having served only 24 months maximum. "Mr Clarke was within his rights to challenge the behaviour and had then gone about his business, assuming that the incident was concluded.
"Moumeche chose to confront him at the bus station, behaving in an aggressive and intimidating way to a man in his 80s who posed no threat.
"He then threw a punch which led to the death of an elderly and innocent man, and a family grieving a much-loved family member and respected member of the community."
That, is not justice.
W12GT said:
No we don't. Two wrongs don't make a right.Lots of emotional responses and completely understandable.
But…daft, aggressive 16 year old (so minor) continues a conflict (red mist) and punches old man. Old man tragically dies.
Was there intent to kill?
The Court has to work within the framework of the Law as it stands. We have a minor lashing out and punching someone. That is assault. The victim dies as a result of one punch. Unintended killing therefore manslaughter.
Penalty for manslaughter varies taking into account many factors, not least the aggressors age etc.
I can see how this scrote got only 2 years.
Sure, I’d like to se him imprisoned for far, far longer too but that’s an emotional reaction to seeing a man die and my bias towards the scrote deserving a kicking himself because I despise idiots like him.
The Court has a duty to remove emotion and bias though and judge based upon seeing an immature kid lashing out and a man sadly dying albeit unintentionally.
It seems harsh for us to accept but that’s the reality.
But…daft, aggressive 16 year old (so minor) continues a conflict (red mist) and punches old man. Old man tragically dies.
Was there intent to kill?
The Court has to work within the framework of the Law as it stands. We have a minor lashing out and punching someone. That is assault. The victim dies as a result of one punch. Unintended killing therefore manslaughter.
Penalty for manslaughter varies taking into account many factors, not least the aggressors age etc.
I can see how this scrote got only 2 years.
Sure, I’d like to se him imprisoned for far, far longer too but that’s an emotional reaction to seeing a man die and my bias towards the scrote deserving a kicking himself because I despise idiots like him.
The Court has a duty to remove emotion and bias though and judge based upon seeing an immature kid lashing out and a man sadly dying albeit unintentionally.
It seems harsh for us to accept but that’s the reality.
Well the reality is that the law is no longer fit for purpose. Like the 12 year olds that knifed a 19 year old recently. It just shows that, in modern times, maybe we need to look more carefully if the age threshold still stands. I think with the internet and social media the children are exposed to more making them perhaps more “developed” than children from 40 years ago.
2 years is no justice for this. He was intimidating and violent and an intentional assault caused death. It wasn’t like he was riding a bike and not looking crashed into the man. His actions had intent to harm.
Would like to read the sentencing reasoning or mitigating factors for this joke of a sentence.
2 years is no justice for this. He was intimidating and violent and an intentional assault caused death. It wasn’t like he was riding a bike and not looking crashed into the man. His actions had intent to harm.
Would like to read the sentencing reasoning or mitigating factors for this joke of a sentence.
ReallyReallyGood said:
No doubt because ‘all he did’ was throw a punch, the falling and hitting his head was a freak accident.
Except it really isn’t, if you’re attacking an octogenarian its highly likely it could cause at least a life changing injury if they fall over.
Ridiculous.
Exactly, if it happened to a youngster, it would be a tragic escalation, hitting someone that age has a high likelihood of this outcome.Except it really isn’t, if you’re attacking an octogenarian its highly likely it could cause at least a life changing injury if they fall over.
Ridiculous.
Also it’s premeditated as they followed him to somewhere with less oversight to attack.
It’s a sentence appeal for me.
CrgT16 said:
Well the reality is that the law is no longer fit for purpose. Like the 12 year olds that knifed a 19 year old recently. It just shows that, in modern times, maybe we need to look more carefully if the age threshold still stands. I think with the internet and social media the children are exposed to more making them perhaps more “developed” than children from 40 years ago.
2 years is no justice for this. He was intimidating and violent and an intentional assault caused death. It wasn’t like he was riding a bike and not looking crashed into the man. His actions had intent to harm.
Would like to read the sentencing reasoning or mitigating factors for this joke of a sentence.
Campaign for stricter sentencing? Get a Law Degree and become a Judge and try to change the Law? 2 years is no justice for this. He was intimidating and violent and an intentional assault caused death. It wasn’t like he was riding a bike and not looking crashed into the man. His actions had intent to harm.
Would like to read the sentencing reasoning or mitigating factors for this joke of a sentence.
We the public have to rely upon the Courts making the right decisions taking into account many factors our emotions and biases may not wish to consider.
Don’t get me wrong, if that little s
t killed my Dad I’d want to murder him. But…that’s why I and many like me don’t get to decide the outcome. I’m not qualified and I have to abide by what the Courts decide is appropriate for the victim, society and the ahole. As you say, we ideally need to understand why the sentencing was as it is but I can predict it when removing my instinctive reaction to hang the scrote.
YorkshireStu said:
Lots of emotional responses and completely understandable.
But…daft, aggressive 16 year old (so minor) continues a conflict (red mist) and punches old man. Old man tragically dies.
Was there intent to kill?
The Court has to work within the framework of the Law as it stands. We have a minor lashing out and punching someone. That is assault. The victim dies as a result of one punch. Unintended killing therefore manslaughter.
Penalty for manslaughter varies taking into account many factors, not least the aggressors age etc.
I can see how this scrote got only 2 years.
Sure, I’d like to se him imprisoned for far, far longer too but that’s an emotional reaction to seeing a man die and my bias towards the scrote deserving a kicking himself because I despise idiots like him.
The Court has a duty to remove emotion and bias though and judge based upon seeing an immature kid lashing out and a man sadly dying albeit unintentionally.
It seems harsh for us to accept but that’s the reality.
The law says you can get up to life imprisonment for manslaughter. The judge decided for whatever stupid reason that fatally punching an 82 year old man warranted only 2 years. But…daft, aggressive 16 year old (so minor) continues a conflict (red mist) and punches old man. Old man tragically dies.
Was there intent to kill?
The Court has to work within the framework of the Law as it stands. We have a minor lashing out and punching someone. That is assault. The victim dies as a result of one punch. Unintended killing therefore manslaughter.
Penalty for manslaughter varies taking into account many factors, not least the aggressors age etc.
I can see how this scrote got only 2 years.
Sure, I’d like to se him imprisoned for far, far longer too but that’s an emotional reaction to seeing a man die and my bias towards the scrote deserving a kicking himself because I despise idiots like him.
The Court has a duty to remove emotion and bias though and judge based upon seeing an immature kid lashing out and a man sadly dying albeit unintentionally.
It seems harsh for us to accept but that’s the reality.
He got only 2 years, which actually means about 1 year which he probably won't serve anyway because of time on remand.
The law allows for a serious punishment. The judge didn't give him a serious punishment.
In my opinion that's because the law in this country is a dysfunctional mess run by idiots.
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