Are the Torys…

[Ivan stewart]

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

[Al Gorithum]

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

Anyone who couldn't see that Boris and the whole bunch of corrupt incompetents would end in disaster, is an idiot IMO.

By demographic, I should vote Tory, but no chance then or ever so it seems...

[Ivan stewart]

Al Gorithum said:

Anyone who couldn't see that Boris and the whole bunch of corrupt incompetents would end in disaster, is an idiot IMO.

By demographic, I should vote Tory, but no chance then or ever so it seems...

I would tend to agree, however it was a Hobsons choice if you wanted independence from
The EU ..

[tribalsurfer]

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

No, but you also need to see how the World is now different to December 2019. If the world had stayed the same, I think we would have beenon course for what was voted for. Covid destroyed the economy, the £50k loans and furlough will be felt for quite a while. Tie that in with Brexit and every remainer seems to suggest all economic issues are doen to leaving the EU. The truth is Brexit and Covid are entwined in the pressure on the economy and we can't really determine the breakdown.

The Ukraine war has massively impacted inflation rated and this has been felt globally and especially within the EU, pair that with Truss' kneejerk economic tactics have also impacted peoples everyday income. The obvious statement is without Covid and the lockdown breaches would Truss ever have become PM ?

Immigration has exploded beyond anyones perceived position and that needs to be managed, we have neither the resources nor the processing power to deal with the numbers we are seeing. This has been the biggest challenge for the Home Secretary. I don't know what the answer is but I am all in favour of if we have no resources here, then an overseas holding place being invoked, not because i'm a harsh b*stard but because there are no other options.

TLDR : Tories would have been fine in the world of 2019, st happens and they did an ok job, probably as good as any of the other options.

[Rivenink]

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

I didn't vote for them, primarily because I viewed Johnson as a lying sack of st who was as devoid of morals as he was of any real talent at leading.

The st show we've been subjected to is worse than what I expected.

[tangerine_sedge]

Rivenink said:

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

I didn't vote for them, primarily because I viewed Johnson as a lying sack of st who was as devoid of morals as he was of any real talent at leading.

The st show we've been subjected to is worse than what I expected.

This. The first time that I voted for someone other than Tory. It was clear that they were a bunch of incompetents and chancers, and they've managed to limbo under that low bar.

[S600BSB]

There have of course be a lot of testing challenges since 2019 - not least Covid - but I don’t think I ever imagined that they would be quite so dishonest and generally incompetent at the business of governing as they have turned out to be. Boris, however, was always going to be unfit for the highest office in the land.

Having said all that, I didn’t vote for them and never would!

[bloomen]

My hope for the tories is that they'd be led by a lying turd who would recruit vituperative dunderheads whose only talent would be sort of agreeing with him. And as a result the country would be a bunch crappier than before.

So yes.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

I'm actually quite pleased with the way things are turning out, though not in anything like the way I hoped for in 2019. Part of my reason for wanting to leave the EU was to nore accurately see just how corrupt and incompetent our polticians were. My golly have they delivered on that! And remember that when Remainers argued that we should be in the EU "fighting our corner" these were the clowns we sent to do our fighting. Small wonder we didn't get what we wanted out of it.

I had hoped Johnson could be something of a unity leader, drawing a line under the divisive Brexit battle which had dominated the previous 3 years and bringing a bit of optimism and direction to things. Haha. Well one out of 3 - he did manage to unite nearly the whole country - leaveal and remain, Tory and Labour, Muslim and Jew in thinking he's a complete tt. He also did at least show that while the mix of Soviet economics and Hamas foreign policy was quite popular it wasn't as popular as wild unachievable promises with a right wing sheen.

Tempting as it would be to think we can elect a better lot next time and they'll make everything OK I don't hold out one single iota of hope for that. The very best they can muster is Kier Starmer, a dull functionary holding together a rabble of Corbynites and Blairites who hate each other with a fringe group of antisemitic nutjobs who at least think he is a useful idiot.

If that all sounds terribly cynical, it is. But the cynicism is tempered with a germ of optimism too. I am now quite hopeful that Kier Starmer and Labour can disillusion their voters and discredit their ideas before the Tories can redeem theirs. This might leave the door open to a better political party to come in and actually do things better.

Hopefully though it will lead to a complete breakdown of our dysfunctional political system and the opportunity to replace it with something much better.

2019 was my last, sorry attempt at thinking a system that was flawed, corrupted and dysfunctional could be reinvigorated, and that a divided and dishonest party could be forced into doing the right thing.

That was all an illusion.

It isn't even that the system is broken. It's doing what it's meant to - keeping us in the right balance of fear and hope, anger and gratitude to pay our taxes and broadly do as we're told.

The system is the problem and the current debacle is a big step towards addressing it.

[Randy Winkman]

Al Gorithum said:

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

Anyone who couldn't see that Boris and the whole bunch of corrupt incompetents would end in disaster, is an idiot IMO.

By demographic, I should vote Tory, but no chance then or ever so it seems...

Exactly. It's probably even a bit better than I expected.

[rufusgti]

tribalsurfer said:

No, but you also need to see how the World is now different to December 2019. If the world had stayed the same, I think we would have beenon course for what was voted for. Covid destroyed the economy, the £50k loans and furlough will be felt for quite a while. Tie that in with Brexit and every remainer seems to suggest all economic issues are doen to leaving the EU. The truth is Brexit and Covid are entwined in the pressure on the economy and we can't really determine the breakdown.

The Ukraine war has massively impacted inflation rated and this has been felt globally and especially within the EU, pair that with Truss' kneejerk economic tactics have also impacted peoples everyday income. The obvious statement is without Covid and the lockdown breaches would Truss ever have become PM ?

Immigration has exploded beyond anyones perceived position and that needs to be managed, we have neither the resources nor the processing power to deal with the numbers we are seeing. This has been the biggest challenge for the Home Secretary. I don't know what the answer is but I am all in favour of if we have no resources here, then an overseas holding place being invoked, not because i'm a harsh b*stard but because there are no other options.

TLDR : Tories would have been fine in the world of 2019, st happens and they did an ok job, probably as good as any of the other options.

Good post, and I largely agree with you. However, the points you make about immigration exploding beyond anyone's perceived position. I don't think that's correct, it's been well documented that we are to expect. more socioeconomic migrants making their way to Europe for at least 20 years. It's our governments job to see these waves and adjust policies to suit. And when you say there's no resources to deal with it, as if that's a problem the government got caught out on. Well, it's their job to be prepared. I really struggle to excuse lazy, neglectful and sluggish policies that do not stand up to what has been on the horizon for almost my entire lifetime.

And while I do agree with your comments on the Ukraine war, I can't differentiate Truss and her demonic manouvres from the rest of the party. They put her there, this is all down to the party, and only the party can be held responsible.

So yes, a bloody tough run for them, and they pretty much balls up the entire thing.

[DaveTheRave87]

2019 Tories were essentially a single-issue (get Brexit done) party who delivered reasonably well on their single issue but haven't a clue what to do about the ordinary day to day stuff.

[Roderick Spode]

I was expecting to see a poll at the top of this thread something like -

Are the Torys...

A) Useless,
B) fking useless
C) Dangerously hilariously incompetent

Lifelong centre right voter, I've generally always plumped Tory unless local tactical requirements offered a better candidate to depose the incumbent useless eater from another party. I've been generally disengaged about politics since 2016, but the miasma of disasters since that fateful day in 2019 have made me fundamentally cynical. I was pleased at an 80 seat majority and the hope of stable government, but unsure of Bozza as PM. By crikey. The current batch of morons won't be getting my vote in 2024, but I most certainly do not think that Labour led by SirKeef will do any better. What a time to be alive.

[CraigyMc]

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

I thought they were self-serving, corrupt, mismanaging, idiots. I don't think I was wrong.

[gareth h]

Ivan stewart said:

Al Gorithum said:

Anyone who couldn't see that Boris and the whole bunch of corrupt incompetents would end in disaster, is an idiot IMO.

By demographic, I should vote Tory, but no chance then or ever so it seems...

I would tend to agree, however it was a Hobsons choice if you wanted independence from
The EU ..

And the alternative was ……drum roll …….Corbyn, if there had been a sensible alternative I would have voted for them (and my bias has always been conservative)

[rohrl]

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

Who’s this “we”?

[Wills2]

Brexit was always going to reveal just how rubbish our politicians were as they had relied on the EU shield for decades, you only have to look on the faces of Gove and Boris the morning after the night before to see they (we) were in trouble, all then descended into chaos.

No one could have made a fist of things no one, the battlefield had been well and truly salted, competence sought other opportunities and radical populism (on both sides) was the order of the day, we really did dip our toe into banana republic politics (probably up to our waists)

The bland gruel being served up by Rishi and equally promised by Starmer is what we need, it really is, we've seen what happens when the population becomes politically engaged and it's not pretty, we're broke and on edge, now is not the time for big ideas and sunny uplands.

The Tory party is a reflection of that day in 2016 as is the Labour party.

[JagLover]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I'm actually quite pleased with the way things are turning out, though not in anything like the way I hoped for in 2019. Part of my reason for wanting to leave the EU was to nore accurately see just how corrupt and incompetent our polticians were. My golly have they delivered on that! And remember that when Remainers argued that we should be in the EU "fighting our corner" these were the clowns we sent to do our fighting. Small wonder we didn't get what we wanted out of it.

I had hoped Johnson could be something of a unity leader, drawing a line under the divisive Brexit battle which had dominated the previous 3 years and bringing a bit of optimism and direction to things. Haha. Well one out of 3 - he did manage to unite nearly the whole country - leaveal and remain, Tory and Labour, Muslim and Jew in thinking he's a complete tt. He also did at least show that while the mix of Soviet economics and Hamas foreign policy was quite popular it wasn't as popular as wild unachievable promises with a right wing sheen.

Tempting as it would be to think we can elect a better lot next time and they'll make everything OK I don't hold out one single iota of hope for that. The very best they can muster is Kier Starmer, a dull functionary holding together a rabble of Corbynites and Blairites who hate each other with a fringe group of antisemitic nutjobs who at least think he is a useful idiot.

If that all sounds terribly cynical, it is. But the cynicism is tempered with a germ of optimism too. I am now quite hopeful that Kier Starmer and Labour can disillusion their voters and discredit their ideas before the Tories can redeem theirs. This might leave the door open to a better political party to come in and actually do things better.

Hopefully though it will lead to a complete breakdown of our dysfunctional political system and the opportunity to replace it with something much better.

2019 was my last, sorry attempt at thinking a system that was flawed, corrupted and dysfunctional could be reinvigorated, and that a divided and dishonest party could be forced into doing the right thing.

That was all an illusion.

It isn't even that the system is broken. It's doing what it's meant to - keeping us in the right balance of fear and hope, anger and gratitude to pay our taxes and broadly do as we're told.

The system is the problem and the current debacle is a big step towards addressing it.

All true enough and the Tories deserve to be swept away but FPTP will no doubt preserve both them and Labour. Offering an illusion of democratic choice while living standards are reduced and the ultra-rich become even more so.

[deckster]

Ivan stewart said:

Even remotely close to what we hoped for when we voted for them in 2019 ??

The Tories are exactly what we expected when we didn't vote for them in 2019, because it was completely obvious that they were institutionally incompetent and and in hock to a shameless self-promoter with no interest in politics beyond what it could do for him.

I know that's not quite the question you asked, but it's close enough.

[neilr]

Al Gorithum said:

Anyone who couldn't see that Boris and the whole bunch of corrupt incompetents would end in disaster, is an idiot IMO.

By demographic, I should vote Tory, but no chance then or ever so it seems...

Exactly this. That it would and in disaster was entirely predictable years age.

IMO the best result the country can hope for is a hung parliament and a coalition. At least that way no nutcases can push through nutty agendas simply because of a huge majority.

I don't think that will happen though.