The Rise of Ireland
Discussion
6 out of those 10, including Ireland, leech of other countries. 2 rely on huge amounts of fossil fuel cash. One is the US. Switzerland is a mix of various reasons, in part the same as the first 6.
Offering low tax to get companies to pretend to be based there isn’t offering anything of value or sustainable, and it’s only viable for small countries. Those countries are not adding any value, just sucking away other countries money. Those 6 countries have a combined population of slightly more than London.
Offering low tax to get companies to pretend to be based there isn’t offering anything of value or sustainable, and it’s only viable for small countries. Those countries are not adding any value, just sucking away other countries money. Those 6 countries have a combined population of slightly more than London.
Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 12th November 07:44
Electro1980 said:
7 out of those 10, including Ireland, leech of other countries. 2 rely on huge amounts of fossil fuel cash. One is the US.
Offering low tax to get companies to pretend to be based there isn’t offering anything of value or sustainable, and it’s only viable for small countries. Those countries are not adding any value, just sucking away other countries money.
This. A pretend Amazon HQ in Dublin means very little for every Irishman that doesn’t work for them. Offering low tax to get companies to pretend to be based there isn’t offering anything of value or sustainable, and it’s only viable for small countries. Those countries are not adding any value, just sucking away other countries money.
I spent a few days in Dublin over the summer and a significant theme from talking to locals/cabbies/drunks/workers is that life is getting a lot tougher for them.
Ireland's GDP is distorted by the number of multi-nationals who have based themselves there. They have one of the world's largest gap between GDP and GNI (at 40%) and many of the Multi-nations based there do not have much of a Irish presence.
While it is true that the UK could have a more attractive tax regime for Multi-nationals, and the CT rate should not exceed 20% IMO with an accompanying competitive capital allowances regime, we cannot really compete with a country that is effectively a tax haven.
What really needs to happen is that companies are taxed by jurisdiction by the genuine level of economic activity in that jurisdiction. But the Americans are unlikely to let this happen.
While it is true that the UK could have a more attractive tax regime for Multi-nationals, and the CT rate should not exceed 20% IMO with an accompanying competitive capital allowances regime, we cannot really compete with a country that is effectively a tax haven.
What really needs to happen is that companies are taxed by jurisdiction by the genuine level of economic activity in that jurisdiction. But the Americans are unlikely to let this happen.
Royal Jelly said:
This. A pretend Amazon HQ in Dublin means very little for every Irishman that doesn’t work for them.
I spent a few days in Dublin over the summer and a significant theme from talking to locals/cabbies/drunks/workers is that life is getting a lot tougher for them.
100%. GDP boosts from corporate financial games does nothing for the person on the street.I spent a few days in Dublin over the summer and a significant theme from talking to locals/cabbies/drunks/workers is that life is getting a lot tougher for them.
Their 8Bn surplus does nothing for their 220Bn debt.
Royal Jelly said:
This. A pretend Amazon HQ in Dublin means very little for every Irishman that doesn’t work for them.
I spent a few days in Dublin over the summer and a significant theme from talking to locals/cabbies/drunks/workers is that life is getting a lot tougher for them.
From reports it would appear that there is something of a new diaspora, certainly of the young. It looks great on paper, but in practical terms, for most of the population, it means higher prices. If you like people at the top getting richer and richer and the 95% that's left finding things worse, you might as well stay in the UK.I spent a few days in Dublin over the summer and a significant theme from talking to locals/cabbies/drunks/workers is that life is getting a lot tougher for them.
Derek Smith said:
From reports it would appear that there is something of a new diaspora, certainly of the young. It looks great on paper, but in practical terms, for most of the population, it means higher prices. If you like people at the top getting richer and richer and the 95% that's left finding things worse, you might as well stay in the UK.
Quite. And I’d wager that the beneficiaries of the tech ‘bases’ amount to far less than 5%. Derek Smith said:
From reports it would appear that there is something of a new diaspora, certainly of the young. It looks great on paper, but in practical terms, for most of the population, it means higher prices. If you like people at the top getting richer and richer and the 95% that's left finding things worse, you might as well stay in the UK.
This .Insane cost of living and the worst housing situation probably anywhere in the world.
Depressing for 95% of the indigenous population.
Ireland is doing well, but Irish GDP is heavily skewed by all the multinationals registered there for tax purposes, along with their Intellectual property. So much so that that there’s effectively a two tier economy. The one driven by multinationals that gets reported into GDP stats, and the real local economy which is approximately half what the GDP figures suggest.
Excellent video here explaining all the nuances.
Excellent video here explaining all the nuances.
Look at this list comparing median wages. If you look at the purchase power parity column (showing the buying power of net wages) it seems Ireland is doing okay. Certainly better than the U.K., which is the worst of the big Western European countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_cou...
Interestingly the Nordics do well despite the very high tax rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_cou...
Interestingly the Nordics do well despite the very high tax rates.
Skeptisk said:
Look at this list comparing median wages. If you look at the purchase power parity column (showing the buying power of net wages) it seems Ireland is doing okay. Certainly better than the U.K., which is the worst of the big Western European countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_cou...
Interestingly the Nordics do well despite the very high tax rates.
Sorry - I searched for median wages and missed that the link is to average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_cou...
Interestingly the Nordics do well despite the very high tax rates.
Anecdotal: Used to regularly talk to Google people based in Dublin. They always rotate account managers, but they were mostly in Dublin IME. Post pandemic, not a single person from UK or Ireland.
This is not a comment on the quality of the people. The guys and girls trying to WFH in India did as good as job as they could during the pandemic, even if connections and conditions were chaotic. Technically they were very good.
This is not a comment on the quality of the people. The guys and girls trying to WFH in India did as good as job as they could during the pandemic, even if connections and conditions were chaotic. Technically they were very good.
stuckmojo said:
Derek Smith said:
From reports it would appear that there is something of a new diaspora, certainly of the young. It looks great on paper, but in practical terms, for most of the population, it means higher prices. If you like people at the top getting richer and richer and the 95% that's left finding things worse, you might as well stay in the UK.
This .Insane cost of living and the worst housing situation probably anywhere in the world.
Depressing for 95% of the indigenous population.
3 US Corporations funnelling rest of world profits through Ireland pay 50% of all irish corporation tax, yet provide virtually no benefit
The cost of living is very high, property prices insane and don’t even try to rent anywhere as there is a huge shortage of property. The Gov are clowns, taxes are high.
As for the diaspora, yes it’s a thing with 75% of young people in a recent report saying that they intend to leave the country
I have three relatives all in their early 20’s that have left in the last six months two to the US and one to Oz
They join another that left last year and is now working as a civil engineer in NYC
They are all university educated with very good degrees with practical applications.. but there aren’t any jobs in Ireland
Another niece is currently at Limerick uni and she plans on leaving too, and says almost all her classmates are the same
As the saying goes, all that glitters isn’t golden
The government here have done some really good work in Ireland’s bounce-back from the financial meltdown, and have moved the tax base significantly from a property-based pseudo-ponzi scheme to a somewhat more sustainable corporation tax-base. We also have full employment
The issue is they’ve not reacted quickly enough to what a few years ago was a looming housing crisis, and is now a full-blown disaster. Not enough houses were built, homelessness must be at record levels, and people cannot afford rents
Combine that with quite a few PR disasters under their watch:
- a new badly-located children’s hospital where build costs are out of control
- a coalition partner in the Greens running transport and hammering motorists while not improving our dire public transport system
- RTE payments scandals
Sinn Fein are now the most popular party in the country, and I’m not really surprised. The problem is if you scratch below the surface of the shinners you can still find a worrying sentiment of the old days, but they are now very much the populist party of choice in Ireland. Their message is of taxing the rich, i.e. anyone earning enough money to afford to buy a 3-bed semi in Dublin, and it’s beginning to resonate with many
I’m not sure they’ll have enough support if they were only to tie up with the leftist parties, and personally I really hope they don’t as it will bankrupt the country, but lately there’s talk that perhaps even Fianna Fáil might join them in a coalition which only a few years ago would have seemed unthinkable. The elections in 2025 will prove very interesting for both the population but also the corporations that are currently based here in varying capacities
The issue is they’ve not reacted quickly enough to what a few years ago was a looming housing crisis, and is now a full-blown disaster. Not enough houses were built, homelessness must be at record levels, and people cannot afford rents
Combine that with quite a few PR disasters under their watch:
- a new badly-located children’s hospital where build costs are out of control
- a coalition partner in the Greens running transport and hammering motorists while not improving our dire public transport system
- RTE payments scandals
Sinn Fein are now the most popular party in the country, and I’m not really surprised. The problem is if you scratch below the surface of the shinners you can still find a worrying sentiment of the old days, but they are now very much the populist party of choice in Ireland. Their message is of taxing the rich, i.e. anyone earning enough money to afford to buy a 3-bed semi in Dublin, and it’s beginning to resonate with many
I’m not sure they’ll have enough support if they were only to tie up with the leftist parties, and personally I really hope they don’t as it will bankrupt the country, but lately there’s talk that perhaps even Fianna Fáil might join them in a coalition which only a few years ago would have seemed unthinkable. The elections in 2025 will prove very interesting for both the population but also the corporations that are currently based here in varying capacities
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