45th President Of The United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 14)
Discussion
Carrying this over as was in mid-reply when the other thread was closed.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
cgt2 said:
91 indictments (probably more coming) cannot just be vanished away. Even by Jesus. Each count must go to trial.
Nixon was never charged with anything because he preempted it by walking away and installing Ford.
They can just vanish. If he pardons himself, then they’ve gone. Yes the matter of whether he is able to pardon himself will rumble on, but the charges are gone until such time as the courts deal with the multiple cases, appeals, appeals and more appeals over the pardon. Only once years have passed and the appeals have been exhausted will the decision over whether to resurrect the charges become valid. That assumes the US is continuing as a functioning democracy and has decided he can’t pardon himself. At that point he’ll be so old, or decrepit, or irrelevant that there will no longer be any appetite to pursue him. There will also be the matter that he’ll be prosecuting and jailing anyone who was involved in any of the indictments he faced, so Willis, Smith et al will probably be unable to lead an appeal against his pardon anyway. Nixon was never charged with anything because he preempted it by walking away and installing Ford.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
LF5335 said:
Carrying this over as was in mid-reply when the other thread was closed.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
How would he pardon himself for the state offences?cgt2 said:
91 indictments (probably more coming) cannot just be vanished away. Even by Jesus. Each count must go to trial.
Nixon was never charged with anything because he preempted it by walking away and installing Ford.
They can just vanish. If he pardons himself, then they’ve gone. Yes the matter of whether he is able to pardon himself will rumble on, but the charges are gone until such time as the courts deal with the multiple cases, appeals, appeals and more appeals over the pardon. Only once years have passed and the appeals have been exhausted will the decision over whether to resurrect the charges become valid. That assumes the US is continuing as a functioning democracy and has decided he can’t pardon himself. At that point he’ll be so old, or decrepit, or irrelevant that there will no longer be any appetite to pursue him. There will also be the matter that he’ll be prosecuting and jailing anyone who was involved in any of the indictments he faced, so Willis, Smith et al will probably be unable to lead an appeal against his pardon anyway. Nixon was never charged with anything because he preempted it by walking away and installing Ford.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
He cannot prosecute and jail anyone just because he wants to.
LF5335 said:
They can just vanish. If he pardons himself, then they’ve gone. Yes the matter of whether he is able to pardon himself will rumble on, but the charges are gone until such time as the courts deal with the multiple cases, appeals, appeals and more appeals over the pardon. Only once years have passed and the appeals have been exhausted will the decision over whether to resurrect the charges become valid. That assumes the US is continuing as a functioning democracy and has decided he can’t pardon himself. At that point he’ll be so old, or decrepit, or irrelevant that there will no longer be any appetite to pursue him. There will also be the matter that he’ll be prosecuting and jailing anyone who was involved in any of the indictments he faced, so Willis, Smith et al will probably be unable to lead an appeal against his pardon anyway.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
With the utmost respect he will never get that far despite what the fearmongers at CNN say to excite people.I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
The next year will be financial ruin (which we are already seeing), more insane rants, millions more young voters registering and Trump continuing the losing streak of 2017,2018,2020,2021,2022 and 2023. Oh and the small matter of spending the majority of his time in courtrooms. I believe there will be at least one conviction before November.
Hypothetically I could be the next James Bond. I really could. But in reality I accept it is very unlikely.
98elise said:
How would he pardon himself for the state offences?
He cannot prosecute and jail anyone just because he wants to.
Why not? He shows no regard for the law, why would he suddenly lay start doing so? He’s already explicitly said he’ll go after those who he feels have wronged him. He’ll just refuse to accept any State level judgement and threaten the State with something Federal. He cannot prosecute and jail anyone just because he wants to.
He has tame judges all round, see how Cannon is acting, 3 of 9 in the Supreme Court were his appointments and the House is a disgrace and will do whatever he wants. Obviously a Democratic House would be a different proposition.
He will do what Trump does and ride roughshod over everything. Christ, he led an attempted coup to the White House. Why put anything beyond him?
cgt2 said:
With the utmost respect he will never get that far despite what the fearmongers at CNN say to excite people.
The next year will be financial ruin (which we are already seeing), more insane rants, millions more young voters registering and Trump continuing the losing streak of 2017,2018,2020,2021,2022 and 2023. Oh and the small matter of spending the majority of his time in courtrooms. I believe there will be at least one conviction before November.
Hypothetically I could be the next James Bond. I really could. But in reality I accept it is very unlikely.
You’re probably right, but refusing to accept any other opinion, because you don’t want to doesn’t mean you’re definitely right. What would be good would be one of these criminal cases actually starting. It’s going to be difficult to convict him without a trial. Given the fraud case is likely to take three months to simply decide the level of damages, then how long do you think a criminal trial will take? Let’s say six months, even then there’s going to be a delay before we get a judgement. Let’s say it’s given immediately, the trial would need to start in March at the latest. That isn’t going to happen the way things are looking. I’d be amazed if they’ve even selected a jury by November. The next year will be financial ruin (which we are already seeing), more insane rants, millions more young voters registering and Trump continuing the losing streak of 2017,2018,2020,2021,2022 and 2023. Oh and the small matter of spending the majority of his time in courtrooms. I believe there will be at least one conviction before November.
Hypothetically I could be the next James Bond. I really could. But in reality I accept it is very unlikely.
LF5335 said:
I’d be amazed if they’ve even selected a jury by November.
Prepare to be amazed my friend. I studied law decades ago so am fairly confident based on years of legal precedent. Nothing I see is any different to how thousands of cases have played out since forever. Ask actual lawyers rather than showboating TV pundits and you'll find general unanimity.cgt2 said:
Prepare to be amazed my friend. I studied law decades ago so am fairly confident based on years of legal precedent. Nothing I see is any different to how thousands of cases have played out since forever. Ask actual lawyers rather than showboating TV pundits and you'll find general unanimity.
Well we’re about a month on since the last time you assured me that I’d be amazed at what’s going to happen. I think the best current description would be underwhelmed. LF5335 said:
Well we’re about a month on since the last time you assured me that I’d be amazed at what’s going to happen. I think the best current description would be underwhelmed.
If you go to a good restaurant the chef takes his time but it is worth it.If you want sloppy, undercooked fast food that will fall apart there are plenty of people who like that but feel very underwhelmed.
Are you following the NY Fraud Trial? As in actually reading the testimony not just skimming headlines? There is plenty happening.
98elise said:
LF5335 said:
Carrying this over as was in mid-reply when the other thread was closed.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
How would he pardon himself for the state offences?cgt2 said:
91 indictments (probably more coming) cannot just be vanished away. Even by Jesus. Each count must go to trial.
Nixon was never charged with anything because he preempted it by walking away and installing Ford.
They can just vanish. If he pardons himself, then they’ve gone. Yes the matter of whether he is able to pardon himself will rumble on, but the charges are gone until such time as the courts deal with the multiple cases, appeals, appeals and more appeals over the pardon. Only once years have passed and the appeals have been exhausted will the decision over whether to resurrect the charges become valid. That assumes the US is continuing as a functioning democracy and has decided he can’t pardon himself. At that point he’ll be so old, or decrepit, or irrelevant that there will no longer be any appetite to pursue him. There will also be the matter that he’ll be prosecuting and jailing anyone who was involved in any of the indictments he faced, so Willis, Smith et al will probably be unable to lead an appeal against his pardon anyway. Nixon was never charged with anything because he preempted it by walking away and installing Ford.
I’m not saying he will be re-elected, but it remains a possibility. The current criminal indictments are not going to make it to court before the election. Any new charges will just result in even more delays to the existing indictments.
He cannot prosecute and jail anyone just because he wants to.
We saw how he tried to weaponise government departments during his term, turning the IRS against his enemies and even trying to use the DHS BorTac as his own personal police force. If he gets anywhere near the white house again you can bet he'll create his own private forces answerable only to him. We may very well see the likes of AG Willis or Jack Smith arrested on trumped up charges.
"But this isn't legal" I hear you say. I refer the honourable person to my first sentence.
He thinks he's a king, that once king he has no one to answer to.
minimoog said:
cgt2 said:
If you go to a good restaurant the chef takes his time but it is worth it.
We were given similar assurances re. the Mueller report, which amounted to bugger all consequences for Trump and his spawn in the end.The consequences have already started to appear, especially with the NY fraud case, they're just arguing over how bad the consequences are going to be.
cgt2 said:
If you go to a good restaurant the chef takes his time but it is worth it.
If you want sloppy, undercooked fast food that will fall apart there are plenty of people who like that but feel very underwhelmed.
Are you following the NY Fraud Trial? As in actually reading the testimony not just skimming headlines? There is plenty happening.
I’d expect the restaurant to serve me my order at some point though, rather than incessantly telling me that it’s being prepared to the highest standard. If you want sloppy, undercooked fast food that will fall apart there are plenty of people who like that but feel very underwhelmed.
Are you following the NY Fraud Trial? As in actually reading the testimony not just skimming headlines? There is plenty happening.
The NY trial is a civil case, I’m talking about the criminal cases. It’s been ongoing for 6 weeks and the prosecution has just finished making its case. Now for the small matter of 127 witnesses for the defence and weeks of wrangling over the most minor and irrelevant detail alongside the same questions being repeated over and over again to each witness, along with even more inane questions. I doubt it will be finished this side of Christmas. This is a trial to ascertain the level of damages, not guilt.
The criminal indictments are never going to make it to court this side of the election.
minimoog said:
cgt2 said:
If you go to a good restaurant the chef takes his time but it is worth it.
We were given similar assurances re. the Mueller report, which amounted to bugger all consequences for Trump and his spawn in the end.And that was just the Mueller report.
But the GOP have no interest in trumps weaponisation of numerous departments.
Barr has a lot to answer for, but so far seems to be escaping any form of punishment.
Rep. Elise Stefanik has filed an ethics complaint against Judge Arthur Engoron in support of trump, which appears to be written by trumps legal team
https://www.rawstory.com/msn-uk/stefanik-trump/
https://www.rawstory.com/msn-uk/stefanik-trump/
minimoog said:
We were given similar assurances re. the Mueller report, which amounted to bugger all consequences for Trump and his spawn in the end.
One very tiny glaring difference.The Mueller report was never going to touch Trump as he was in fact the President at the time and had a supplicant AG. They did charge multiple felonies from those who they could such as Manafort and other Trump cronies and they recovered millions more in funds than the investigation cost.
Mueller himself was well past his prime but the fact remained a career Republican and former FBI chief was never going to touch a sitting President. Anyone who thought otherwise was delusional.
Byker28i said:
Rep. Elise Stefanik has filed an ethics complaint against Judge Arthur Engoron in support of trump, which appears to be written by trumps legal team
https://www.rawstory.com/msn-uk/stefanik-trump/
So there’s the perfect Trump play. Whatever the outcome of this trial will be put on hold pretty much indefinitely as they appeal it, because there’s a pending decision over whether there should be an investigation into conducting an ethics review of the judge which may happen at some unknown point well into the future. https://www.rawstory.com/msn-uk/stefanik-trump/
But you know it’s OK, consequences and things don’t just go away and the law is the same for everyone
LF5335 said:
98elise said:
How would he pardon himself for the state offences?
He cannot prosecute and jail anyone just because he wants to.
Why not? He shows no regard for the law, why would he suddenly lay start doing so? He’s already explicitly said he’ll go after those who he feels have wronged him. He’ll just refuse to accept any State level judgement and threaten the State with something Federal. He cannot prosecute and jail anyone just because he wants to.
He has tame judges all round, see how Cannon is acting, 3 of 9 in the Supreme Court were his appointments and the House is a disgrace and will do whatever he wants. Obviously a Democratic House would be a different proposition.
He will do what Trump does and ride roughshod over everything. Christ, he led an attempted coup to the White House. Why put anything beyond him?
98elise said:
He can't refuse to accept a judgement and has no power send people to jail on a whim. If he could do what he pleased as President then he would still be in the Whitehouse and Hillary Clinton would be in Jail.
That was then and this is now. He hadn’t lost then and thought he was untouchable. Now he knows he’s not. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff