More Met Bad Apples

[bitchstewie]

Another day another couple of sackings.

Bianca Williams: Two Met officers sacked over athlete search gross misconduct

Can the Met actually be fixed?

Edited by bhstewie on Wednesday 25th October 17:40

[272BHP]

Sacked because they could not detect the smell was coming from somewhere else? who is to say it was not an honest mistake?

Must be more to the ruling surely? or did the officers admit they lied?

[bitchstewie]

Presume that the panel heard all the evidence and didn't find it very believable.

[Earthdweller]

So the athletes weren’t racially profiled

They weren’t unlawfully stopped

The use of force was justified

All officers found not guilty of any wrongdoing in relation to the conduct of the stop

However, two officers who claimed they smelt cannabis during the stop didn’t do enough to ascertain whether the smell came from the car or not.

The panel haven’t said they lied, haven’t said they didn’t smell cannabis just that in the opinion of the panel they should have done more to rule out whether it could have come from somewhere else!!

And sacked them because of that opinion that the panel held, rather than the honestly held belief of the officers

Very strange judgement imo

I can definitely see an appeal for wrongful dismissal coming

[ArmaghMan]

Stewie,
Was there not a thread about this at the time?

Searched and can't find it though

[119]

Earthdweller said:

So the athletes weren’t racially profiled

They weren’t unlawfully stopped

The use of force was justified

All officers found not guilty of any wrongdoing in relation to the conduct of the stop

However, two officers who claimed they smelt cannabis during the stop didn’t do enough to ascertain whether the smell came from the car or not.

The panel haven’t said they lied, haven’t said they didn’t smell cannabis just that in the opinion of the panel they should have done more to rule out whether it could have come from somewhere else!!

And sacked them because of that opinion that the panel held, rather than the honestly held belief of the officers

Very strange judgement imo

I can definitely see an appeal for wrongful dismissal coming

Yep, and i hope they win tbh.

[bitchstewie]

Probably but likewise as the search doesn't cover NP&E.

Earthdweller I'd say by most peoples definition of the word the panel found they lied.

https://news.met.police.uk/news/two-officers-dismi...

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Ward said:

While the panel accepted the officers’ version of events in most matters, including that their decisions were not motivated by ethnicity, it found that PC Clapham and PC Franks lied about smelling drugs on stopping the vehicle.

[carinaman]

Two of them smelt Cannabis and three didn't?

The other three weren't prepared to lie about smelling Cannabis, or they didn't abort or cut short the stop when they realised there was no Cannabis and therefore no justification for the stop?

BBC Report mentioned suspicion of weapons and drugs.


What about the suspicions about weapons?


It reminds me of that case:

https://www.northernirelandworld.com/news/crime/mo...

[Bigends]

bhstewie said:

Probably but likewise as the search doesn't cover NP&E.

Earthdweller I'd say by most peoples definition of the word the panel found they lied.

https://news.met.police.uk/news/two-officers-dismi...

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Ward said:

While the panel accepted the officers’ version of events in most matters, including that their decisions were not motivated by ethnicity, it found that PC Clapham and PC Franks lied about smelling drugs on stopping the vehicle.

A police officer “thought he could smell cannabis” coming from the car of two top athletes, telling a colleague “I’m getting a wee whiff of something”, a misconduct hearing was told.

Pc Allan Casey told a colleague “there’s certainly a whiff of something” after sprinter Ricardo Dos Santos his partner and Team GB athlete Bianca Williams were stopped and searched on July 4 2020.

PC Franks - He searched Mr Dos Santos once he was out of the car and was heard on body-worn camera footage saying “I can also smell cannabis coming from the car.
Pc Franks on Tuesday admitted he was “incorrect” when he said on the footage he could smell cannabis coming from the car.

He added: “I’d only been by the car for a matter of seconds when Mr Dos Santos opened the door, stepped out, pulled away from me and we were in a struggle.

“I wasn’t initially aware where the odour was coming from.”

Asked if in the past he has searched someone and did not initially smell cannabis, but then there was a smell later, Pc Franks said: “What usually happens, there’s a disturbance of where it is, it’s in underwear or a smell-proof bag, it dislodges and the smell starts emanating.

[Earthdweller]

bhstewie said:

Probably but likewise as the search doesn't cover NP&E.

Earthdweller I'd say by most peoples definition of the word the panel found they lied.

https://news.met.police.uk/news/two-officers-dismi...

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Ward said:

While the panel accepted the officers’ version of events in most matters, including that their decisions were not motivated by ethnicity, it found that PC Clapham and PC Franks lied about smelling drugs on stopping the vehicle.

The panel found that there was a smell of cannabis present, what differs is that the panel decided it could have emanated from somewhere else and therefore the officers lied about it’s source because they didn’t do enough to rule out that it could have come from somewhere other than the car

As I said strange judgement

[carinaman]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/he_who_smelt_it_dea...

[Bigends]

Earthdweller said:

bhstewie said:

Probably but likewise as the search doesn't cover NP&E.

Earthdweller I'd say by most peoples definition of the word the panel found they lied.

https://news.met.police.uk/news/two-officers-dismi...

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Ward said:

While the panel accepted the officers’ version of events in most matters, including that their decisions were not motivated by ethnicity, it found that PC Clapham and PC Franks lied about smelling drugs on stopping the vehicle.

The panel found that there was a smell of cannabis present, what differs is that the panel decided it could have emanated from somewhere else and therefore the officers lied about it’s source because they didn’t do enough to rule out that it could have come from somewhere other than the car

As I said strange judgement

How can the panel find there was a smell of Cannabis without actually being there?. There was no Cannabis.

[bitchstewie]

Earthdweller said:

The panel found that there was a smell of cannabis present, what differs is that the panel decided it could have emanated from somewhere else and therefore the officers lied about it’s source because they didn’t do enough to rule out that it could have come from somewhere other than the car

As I said strange judgement

Sure but I don't think "all officers found not guilty of any wrongdoing in relation to the conduct of the stop" is how most people would see it.

Do you honestly think that?

Two of them weren't truthful and lied and they were sacked for it.

[CoolHands]

I thought they didn’t need a reason to stop a car so if so inventing a reason is stupid. Can they not stop any car they want without a reason?

[Pitre]

The police get so much sh!t I'm not surprised some of them may sometimes bend the rules to enforce the law on the mean streets of London.

I can't believe your average copper is expected to deal with some real scum (not in this case obviously) without ever putting a foot wrong, getting angry, using occasional excessive force, forgetting to turn their cameras on and when conducting stop and search not disproportionately suspecting the sector of society that is obviously the majority of machete/knife/steaming/drug gangs above other ethnicities, is beyond me.

They deserve more support from their seniors and our politicians - not just in terms of not rooting out the bad apples (obviously they need to) but in making sure they are well resourced and properly screened when joining. It's simply not acceptable to recruit police officers without implementing appropriate standards and paying them accordingly, neither of which are done currently, apparently.

None of this excuses law breaking by those bad apples who currently get through the current laughable recruitment process, obviously.

The average police officer deserves more support from those of us who want their protection and are basically law-abiding (yes, I have been known to speed).

[Biggy Stardust]

bhstewie said:

Earthdweller said:

The panel found that there was a smell of cannabis present, what differs is that the panel decided it could have emanated from somewhere else and therefore the officers lied about it’s source because they didn’t do enough to rule out that it could have come from somewhere other than the car

As I said strange judgement

Sure but I don't think "all officers found not guilty of any wrongdoing in relation to the conduct of the stop" is how most people would see it.

Do you honestly think that?

Two of them weren't truthful and lied and they were sacked for it.

Do we want police who tell little fibs to justify their actions including use of force? No we don't.

The claim that they did nothing wrong doesn't tally with the dismissal so I'm going to say they did something wrong.

[g4ry13]

Pretty absurd. I wouldn't want to be a police officer these days.

[survivalist]

Pitre said:

The police get so much sh!t I'm not surprised some of them may sometimes bend the rules to enforce the law on the mean streets of London.

I can't believe your average copper is expected to deal with some real scum (not in this case obviously) without ever putting a foot wrong, getting angry, using occasional excessive force, forgetting to turn their cameras on and when conducting stop and search not disproportionately suspecting the sector of society that is obviously the majority of machete/knife/steaming/drug gangs above other ethnicities, is beyond me.

They deserve more support from their seniors and our politicians - not just in terms of not rooting out the bad apples (obviously they need to) but in making sure they are well resourced and properly screened when joining. It's simply not acceptable to recruit police officers without implementing appropriate standards and paying them accordingly, neither of which are done currently, apparently.

None of this excuses law breaking by those bad apples who currently get through the current laughable recruitment process, obviously.

The average police officer deserves more support from those of us who want their protection and are basically law-abiding (yes, I have been known to speed).

Interesting viewpoint.

So police officers deserve more support in terms of committing some misconduct as long as it’s for crimes that are perpetrated by ‘real scum’ but should be held to account when encountering those who are, presumably, not ‘real scum’.

Seems like a good idea (clearly it really isn’t) but who decides who the ‘real scum’ are. To some it would be you - after all you have been known to speed.

[gotoPzero]

CoolHands said:

I thought they didn’t need a reason to stop a car so if so inventing a reason is stupid. Can they not stop any car they want without a reason?

The police can stop any vehicle being driven on a road to establish the driver has a licence to drive said vehicle.

From the reports I read the reason for the stop was actually manner of driving and they smell was only detected when they were stopped?

[XCP]

gotoPzero said:

CoolHands said:

I thought they didn’t need a reason to stop a car so if so inventing a reason is stupid. Can they not stop any car they want without a reason?

The police can stop any vehicle being driven on a road to establish the driver has a licence to drive said vehicle.

From the reports I read the reason for the stop was actually manner of driving and they smell was only detected when they were stopped?

No need to have anything to do with licence or lack thereof.