Taking sides in other country's wars

[Upinflames]

When did we start doing this?

I grew up with the Iran Iraq war in the news, I don't remember our PM 'Standing with' one side or the other or pledging millions (billions) of £ in aid and weaponry.

Why do we feel the need to do this?

[glazbagun]

Britain? Since forever but usually only when one side is an ally or enemy.

[Hill92]

The oldest continuing alliance is the Anglo-Portuguese alliance dating back to 1386. The Auld Alliance between Scotland and France goes back even further.

We've been than happy to court the suport of third parties ourselves - in the world wars and the Falklands to name a few.

And we did take sides in the Iraq-Iran War:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_support_fo...

[2xChevrons]

Upinflames said:

When did we start doing this?

I grew up with the Iran Iraq war in the news, I don't remember our PM 'Standing with' one side or the other or pledging millions (billions) of £ in aid and weaponry.

Why do we feel the need to do this?

It may not have been on the news, but the UK definitely took a side in the Iran-Iraq War, including the sale of 'non-lethal' military equipment (tank engines, un-filled artillery shells and electronic systems to improve the accuracy of long range artillery), the financing of a chemical plant and a lot of looking the other way as Iraq purchased proscribed materiel via third parties or shell companies. The UK government had a formal policy of diplomatic and trade support for Hussein's Iraq in the 1980s as a counter to the Islamic Republic of Iran...a policy that it no way backfired in the future.

The US was even more explicit in Iraq being its favoured side in that war. In fact Iraq was in the rare position of being supported and courted by both NATO powers and the USSR at the same time.

[CrutyRammers]

Since before there was a Britain, and certainly before there was a UK. I mean I can understand not knowing about stuff hundreds of years back, but did both world wars pass you by, OP?

Self interest, treaties, allies. "Splendid isolation" is not a realistic or sensible option, even if it seems alluring to some.

[thewarlock]

Upinflames said:

When did we start doing this?

I grew up with the Iran Iraq war in the news, I don't remember our PM 'Standing with' one side or the other or pledging millions (billions) of £ in aid and weaponry.

Why do we feel the need to do this?

Long before Germany marched into Poland and we declared war as a result, then gave the Soviets a bunch of kit to defend against Germany on their border.

[Wills2]

Upinflames said:

When did we start doing this?

I grew up with the Iran Iraq war in the news, I don't remember our PM 'Standing with' one side or the other or pledging millions (billions) of £ in aid and weaponry.

Why do we feel the need to do this?

We've been astride the world doing it for as long as we've been able to project power so hundreds and hundreds of years, in the old days we didn't just support a side we were the ones doing the fighting and conquering, recently we've stepped back from that and just back a side instead.

This isn't a new thing but the 24hr news media cycle and social media is.

[Countdown]

Upinflames said:

When did we start doing this?

I grew up with the Iran Iraq war in the news, I don't remember our PM 'Standing with' one side or the other or pledging millions (billions) of £ in aid and weaponry.

Why do we feel the need to do this?

From recent memory we've been involved in

Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Syria

I have no idea why we needed to be involved in any of those.

[M1AGM]

Countdown said:

From recent memory we've been involved in

Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Syria

I have no idea why we needed to be involved in any of those.

£££

Wars are great for business.

[Countdown]

M1AGM said:

£££

Wars are great for business.

I also think it's willy-waving from whichever PM is in power. Wanting to be seen as some kind of "International stateman"

[neilr]

Britain is the second largest exporter of arms in the world. I think it might have something to do with that. Just a hunch mind.

[Vanden Saab]

neilr said:

Britain is the second largest exporter of arms in the world. I think it might have something to do with that. Just a hunch mind.

Got a source for that or did your device autocorrect second for seventh?

[aeropilot]

neilr said:

Britain is the second largest exporter of arms in the world. I think it might have something to do with that. Just a hunch mind.

The UK is not the second largest exporter of arms, it wasn't even the 2nd largest in Europe, with Russia, France, Germany and even Italy all ahead of the UK.

As of 2022, UK was only the 7th largest in the world.

[neilr]

Vanden Saab said:

Got a source for that or did your device autocorrect second for seventh?

There are many sources available stating that and have done for many years. according to a quick google, 2nd largest is apparently by monetary value of equipment not weight or number of items. Make of that what you will. FWIW first remember reading that it was 2nd nearly 20 years ago.

I'm quite happy to be wrong though, this isn't a thesis. Even if its 7th, that's probably why. War is big business.

[V8covin]

Don't we just support whoever the USA do

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Upinflames said:

When did we start doing this?

I grew up with the Iran Iraq war in the news, I don't remember our PM 'Standing with' one side or the other or pledging millions (billions) of £ in aid and weaponry.

Your memory is failing. We supported Saddam & Iraq in that conflict. We didn't need to send aid as they were wealthy, but we made a lot of money supplying them with arms. Arms that ended up years later being used against us.

We never really liked Saddam, but we disliked Iran more, and British foreign policy has always been the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[pequod]

I thought our interference in other country's affairs, was about supporting democracy in an otherwise undemocratic State?

Might be wrong though, and it was simply the business of selling weapons... makes sense, under the guise of doing the right thing!

[Countdown]

pequod said:

I thought our interference in other country's affairs, was about supporting democracy in an otherwise undemocratic State?

To give you one example - Iran is probably far closer to a "democracy" than ALL of the other Arab states but we've supported most of the other Arab states against Iran. Saudi Arabia being a prime example - they've killed thousands in Yemen and we've sold them billions in weaponry. When we provide evil regimes with weapons it's good business and realpolitik, when Iran does it it's terrorism.....

regards to Libya - there was no reason for u to get involved but we did. Libya is now a complete hellhole. We were also involved in Afghanistan and Iraq, also resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands but having achieved sweet foxtrot alpha.

[DaveCWK]

We (the west in general) have always united against islamic terrorism, on the basis thst if its not dealt with we are next, so nothing new there.

It's just in this specific case, there is a very vocal minority who have apparently made it their life's work to get justice for Palestine, & finally their baby is front and center for all the wrong reasons, so they are making sure we hear about it.

[M1AGM]

Countdown said:

pequod said:

I thought our interference in other country's affairs, was about supporting democracy in an otherwise undemocratic State?

To give you one example - Iran is probably far closer to a "democracy" than ALL of the other Arab states but we've supported most of the other Arab states against Iran. Saudi Arabia being a prime example - they've killed thousands in Yemen and we've sold them billions in weaponry. When we provide evil regimes with weapons it's good business and realpolitik, when Iran does it it's terrorism.....

regards to Libya - there was no reason for u to get involved but we did. Libya is now a complete hellhole. We were also involved in Afghanistan and Iraq, also resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands but having achieved sweet foxtrot alpha.

I read the previous post as being sarcastic?

+1 to the rest of that. And dont forget oil. We like oil. Plenty of £ in oil, and opiates.