Solution to Palestinian Israeli problem

[Skeptisk]

Lots of debate about the rights and wrongs of the current situation and who has more blood on their hands but how can it be fixed?

I’ve not given (wholly) unrealistic options, such as the elimination of Israel (despite that being wished for by some Palestinians and used as a justification for the unjustifiable by some Israelis), nor the driving out or elimination of the Palestinians (even though wishes for by some Israelis).

Are there any other permanent solutions other than the two state option? Saying that, would a two state solution that is one sided and unfair even work?

[Beati Dogu]

Coastal erosion will sort it out.

[Register1]

Isnt the problem the fact that Israel shouldn't be there?

[ATG]

Two state of some sort. Question is, where do you put the borders and do you try to have some kind of shared authority over some areas which would force coexistence and cooperation?

The problem with picking borders from some previous point in time is that none of them work particularly well nor satisfied anyone. You can't expect Israel to accept borders that leave the country 10 miles wide in a few places. Similarly you can't fragment the Palestinian state. And everyone wants to have at least some part of Jerusalem.

It's very hard to see how two states could work unless there was a significant amount of cooperation and interdependence btwn the two states, and how you achieve that without first building a lot of good will, I don't know.

[kiethton]

Register1 said:

Isnt the problem the fact that Israel shouldn't be there?

Or that Palestine won't exist very soon

[hiccy18]

I thought it quite fortuitous for the BBC that Question Time came from Northern Ireland lastnight. The only solution to war is for both sides to want peace, and disarm. Unfortunately for both parties, external actors keep stirring st in Palestine, and Bibi is a butcher. When you can get Likud, Hezbollah and Iran talking, you'll crack it; until then, Arafat will be weeping in heaven.

[asfault]

The solution is understand the underlying problem.


xxx group believe in god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you
yyy group believe in god but not the same god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you.

Therefore tell them both to grow up and stop believing in a magical being in the sky.

[Biker 1]

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth out there.
I can't see any peaceful settlement in my lifetime.

[Solocle]

asfault said:

The solution is understand the underlying problem.


xxx group believe in god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you
yyy group believe in god but not the same god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you.

Therefore tell them both to grow up and stop believing in a magical being in the sky.

Except that's not it, at all. Most Jews really don't care about what other people believe. Judaism is a religion for the Jewish people. It's not proselytised like Christianity or Islam. In fact, rabbis of old looked favourably on Islam when compared to Christianity, for its strict monetheism. But that's in terms of critiquing the beliefs, not the believers.

Oh, and as for Israelis? 43% of Israeli Jews are secular. Another 25% are traditionalists (so may not be particulalrly religious).

I.e. about 1/2 of Israeli Jews don't believe in God at all!

[Biker 1]

The poll seems to be going in the 'no solution' direction, which I agree is most probable. All depressingly sad, but looks like it will continue on & off forever.

[JagLover]

ATG said:

Two state of some sort. Question is, where do you put the borders and do you try to have some kind of shared authority over some areas which would force coexistence and cooperation?

The problem with picking borders from some previous point in time is that none of them work particularly well nor satisfied anyone. You can't expect Israel to accept borders that leave the country 10 miles wide in a few places. Similarly you can't fragment the Palestinian state. And everyone wants to have at least some part of Jerusalem.

It's very hard to see how two states could work unless there was a significant amount of cooperation and interdependence btwn the two states, and how you achieve that without first building a lot of good will, I don't know.

This basically

1967 borders were a ceasefire line and were not defensible so Israel would be unlikely accept without the region becoming as peaceful as western Europe.

Two state with same percentage of land as in 1967. Religious sites on a special basis.

[GT03ROB]

hiccy18 said:

The only solution to war is for both sides to want peace, and disarm. Unfortunately for both parties, external actors keep stirring st in Palestine, and Bibi is a butcher. When you can get Likud, Hezbollah and Iran talking, you'll crack it; until then, Arafat will be weeping in heaven.

This is really the nuts of it. While the outside forces persist in using the Palestinians as pawns in their fight against Israel, there can be no hope of peace.

[Skeptisk]

Solocle said:

asfault said:

The solution is understand the underlying problem.


xxx group believe in god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you
yyy group believe in god but not the same god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you.

Therefore tell them both to grow up and stop believing in a magical being in the sky.

Except that's not it, at all. Most Jews really don't care about what other people believe. Judaism is a religion for the Jewish people. It's not proselytised like Christianity or Islam. In fact, rabbis of old looked favourably on Islam when compared to Christianity, for its strict monetheism. But that's in terms of critiquing the beliefs, not the believers.

Oh, and as for Israelis? 43% of Israeli Jews are secular. Another 25% are traditionalists (so may not be particulalrly religious).

I.e. about 1/2 of Israeli Jews don't believe in God at all!

Agreed but isn’t a key part of the problem that the minority of Jews that are fundamentalists are the ones least likely to compromise or accept giving up land to the Palestinians to achieve peace and also more likely to be settlers in the occupied territories (so making peace more difficult)?

[Skeptisk]

GT03ROB said:

hiccy18 said:

The only solution to war is for both sides to want peace, and disarm. Unfortunately for both parties, external actors keep stirring st in Palestine, and Bibi is a butcher. When you can get Likud, Hezbollah and Iran talking, you'll crack it; until then, Arafat will be weeping in heaven.

This is really the nuts of it. While the outside forces persist in using the Palestinians as pawns in their fight against Israel, there can be no hope of peace.

Agreed but that is only half the problem. Without the US Israel would have been forced to accept a peaceful solution decades ago.

[nikaiyo2]

One word Iran

Until Iran stop funding and arming terror groups there is no hope for peace. Just look at Lebanon and Yemen and what they have done there, the Palestinians are useful pawns in spreading instability in the region.

[hiccy18]

Skeptisk said:

GT03ROB said:

hiccy18 said:

The only solution to war is for both sides to want peace, and disarm. Unfortunately for both parties, external actors keep stirring st in Palestine, and Bibi is a butcher. When you can get Likud, Hezbollah and Iran talking, you'll crack it; until then, Arafat will be weeping in heaven.

This is really the nuts of it. While the outside forces persist in using the Palestinians as pawns in their fight against Israel, there can be no hope of peace.

Agreed but that is only half the problem. Without the US Israel would have been forced to accept a peaceful solution decades ago.

I'm possibly blinkered in my occidental view of the world and may be overlooking possible US st stirring targetted at harming Iran, but I believe if you got the other three parties talking and being comitted to finding a peaceful solution then the US could live with the result.

[crofty1984]

Mario kart. Big ol' Mario kart tournament and whoever is the winner gets all the land.

[mko9]

Skeptisk said:

Solocle said:

asfault said:

The solution is understand the underlying problem.


xxx group believe in god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you
yyy group believe in god but not the same god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you.

Therefore tell them both to grow up and stop believing in a magical being in the sky.

Except that's not it, at all. Most Jews really don't care about what other people believe. Judaism is a religion for the Jewish people. It's not proselytised like Christianity or Islam. In fact, rabbis of old looked favourably on Islam when compared to Christianity, for its strict monetheism. But that's in terms of critiquing the beliefs, not the believers.

Oh, and as for Israelis? 43% of Israeli Jews are secular. Another 25% are traditionalists (so may not be particulalrly religious).

I.e. about 1/2 of Israeli Jews don't believe in God at all!

Agreed but isn’t a key part of the problem that the minority of Jews that are fundamentalists are the ones least likely to compromise or accept giving up land to the Palestinians to achieve peace and also more likely to be settlers in the occupied territories (so making peace more difficult)?

And they both technically believe in the same god, they just believe different things about what that god wants.

[Skeptisk]

hiccy18 said:

Skeptisk said:

GT03ROB said:

hiccy18 said:

The only solution to war is for both sides to want peace, and disarm. Unfortunately for both parties, external actors keep stirring st in Palestine, and Bibi is a butcher. When you can get Likud, Hezbollah and Iran talking, you'll crack it; until then, Arafat will be weeping in heaven.

This is really the nuts of it. While the outside forces persist in using the Palestinians as pawns in their fight against Israel, there can be no hope of peace.

Agreed but that is only half the problem. Without the US Israel would have been forced to accept a peaceful solution decades ago.

I'm possibly blinkered in my occidental view of the world and may be overlooking possible US st stirring targetted at harming Iran, but I believe if you got the other three parties talking and being comitted to finding a peaceful solution then the US could live with the result.

The financial, political and military support provided by the US gives the hardliners in Israel the possibility of not negotiating.

[andymc]

asfault said:

The solution is understand the underlying problem.


xxx group believe in god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you
yyy group believe in god but not the same god and if you dont believe in our god we hate you.

Therefore tell them both to grow up and stop believing in a magical being in the sky.

basically my benevolent God is better than your benevolent God, die die die