Jess Phillips - reality check?

[A500leroy]

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

[JagLover]

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

Men are more likely to be assaulted outside the home than women. So yes not sure men are wandering around the rougher parts of town at night without a care in the world.

[2xChevrons]

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

Man here, so take that for what it's worth in this context.

But, from everything I've heard, seen and known from the women in my life about what many - most - of them they have to think and worry about when out in public (not just alone at night, although that amplifies it) and the sort of low-level harassment, intimidation, stalking etc. that many of them have encountered...I think if we could make the average women feel the average level of fear/anxiety that the average man feels in the same situation, that would be a massive improvement.

Whether it's luck, privilege, upbringing, confidence or blissful ignorance, I have never felt truly scared or nervous in any situation when I've been walking the streets or on public transport, be it the night or the day (and I haven't spent my entire life in some leafy rural idyll either - Portsmouth, Bristol, Peterborough etc, are not exactly free of hoodlums and ne'er-do-wells). Some heightened awareness, and a quick check over the shoulder when I hear following footsteps but no actual fear. And none of my fears end in sexual assault or abuse, which is a potential that a lot of women have to worry about. And I have never been cat-called, had some random stranger follow me trying to chat me up or offering to 'make sure I get home alright' and then getting tetchy when the 'kind offer' was refused, had strangers passing on the pavement try to do a quick 'drive by' groping etc. And it's never occurred to me to walk with keys in my fist, to carry a rape alarm, or to keep friends informed of my movements by text message as I walk back from a night out.

I'm sure there are men who worry about these sorts of things, but I have never (knowingly) encountered one. While it's incredibly prevalent - both the fears and the experiences - in the women I know.

So yes, not to say that men have no reason to be scared or aren't scared, but getting women to what seems to be the average level of 'male scared-ness' would be a positive change.

[markh1973]

I agree with the post above.

I used to go running with some female friends in the evening and their were places they would only run if I were with them. We're talking parts of the London commuter belt in Orpington. I had never even considered whether they were safe to run through. When women can do things most men do without even thinking about it then maybe things will have improved.

[JagLover]

2xChevrons said:

Whether it's luck, privilege, upbringing, confidence or blissful ignorance, I have never felt truly scared or nervous in any situation when I've been walking the streets or on public transport, be it the night or the day (and I haven't spent my entire life in some leafy rural idyll either - Portsmouth, Bristol, Peterborough etc, are not exactly free of hoodlums and ne'er-do-wells).

Will likely depend on the person.

If we are talking of real physical threat then I grew up in South-east London and my Brother got a pasting a few times and a mate of his got it worse, was put in a hospital, and his Mother moved him back to Coventry as she thought London too dangerous.

If we are talking of the risk of major physical assault then men are at higher risk, but it depends on how you deal with that threat. In general men may be more relaxed, despite their higher level of risk, but that is not to say all are.

[Four Litre]

JagLover said:

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

Men are more likely to be assaulted outside the home than women. So yes not sure men are wandering around the rougher parts of town at night without a care in the world.

Exactly this. Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women. Last time I looked the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women.

Not a good idea if Jess Phililips is trying to equal that??!

[bitchstewie]

Haven't seen anything specific on this but think of it this way.

How many men do you know who routinely wear headphones or carry a book just to look "busy" if they're walking down the street or on public transport to put people off from approaching them and speaking to them.

Things like calling a mate on your walk home.

Or being unable to walk down the street without getting leered at and cat called.

"Safe" doesn't literally mean being attacked.

[Four Litre]

bhstewie said:

Haven't seen anything specific on this but think of it this way.

How many men do you know who routinely wear headphones or carry a book just to look "busy" if they're walking down the street or on public transport to put people off from approaching them and speaking to them.

Things like calling a mate on your walk home.

Or being unable to walk down the street without getting leered at and cat called.

"Safe" doesn't literally mean being attacked.

The same government stats state that men are twice as likely to be verbally intimidated.

I have a daughter and a son. I worry about both of them, my daughter gets propositioned regularly, my son gets people trying to steal his stuff, like his bike etc when hes on it or fight him.

[S600BSB]

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

I think she is spot on.

[Rivenink]

I don't think I have ever, not even once, been the slighest bit fearful of being sexually assulted while going about my life.

I doubt there are very many women at all who can say the same.

[gregs656]

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

The stats show she is right, women feel disproportionately unsafe walking alone.

I don't think it's a bad thing to call attention to that.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

[oyster]

Four Litre said:

JagLover said:

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

Men are more likely to be assaulted outside the home than women. So yes not sure men are wandering around the rougher parts of town at night without a care in the world.

Exactly this. Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women. Last time I looked the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women.

Not a good idea if Jess Phililips is trying to equal that??!

the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women
DOES NOT EQUATE TO:
Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women

I suspect a large amount of the males being attacked or verbally intimidated are doing so because of their behaviour and attitude to risk. Many will likely be things like pub fights and so on. Hardly comparable.

Do many men get such attacks and intimidation doing things like:
Walking home from the station
Out on a run
Walking past a pub.

[Earthdweller]

Only today it’s on the news that a female U.K. police officer on holiday was dragged from the street at knifepoint into a park by the Eiffel Tower in Paris and raped

As a man I don’t think that’s likely to ever happen to me

My wife who travels widely with work is very conscious of her safety and has told of a few creepy encounters she’s had from taxi driver’s to random strangers approaching her

[anonymous-user]

2xChevrons said:

Man here, so take that for what it's worth in this context.

But, from everything I've heard, seen and known from the women in my life about what many - most - of them they have to think and worry about when out in public (not just alone at night, although that amplifies it) and the sort of low-level harassment, intimidation, stalking etc. that many of them have encountered...I think if we could make the average women feel the average level of fear/anxiety that the average man feels in the same situation, that would be a massive improvement.

Whether it's luck, privilege, upbringing, confidence or blissful ignorance, I have never felt truly scared or nervous in any situation when I've been walking the streets or on public transport, be it the night or the day (and I haven't spent my entire life in some leafy rural idyll either - Portsmouth, Bristol, Peterborough etc, are not exactly free of hoodlums and ne'er-do-wells). Some heightened awareness, and a quick check over the shoulder when I hear following footsteps but no actual fear. And none of my fears end in sexual assault or abuse, which is a potential that a lot of women have to worry about. And I have never been cat-called, had some random stranger follow me trying to chat me up or offering to 'make sure I get home alright' and then getting tetchy when the 'kind offer' was refused, had strangers passing on the pavement try to do a quick 'drive by' groping etc. And it's never occurred to me to walk with keys in my fist, to carry a rape alarm, or to keep friends informed of my movements by text message as I walk back from a night out.

I'm sure there are men who worry about these sorts of things, but I have never (knowingly) encountered one. While it's incredibly prevalent - both the fears and the experiences - in the women I know.

So yes, not to say that men have no reason to be scared or aren't scared, but getting women to what seems to be the average level of 'male scared-ness' would be a positive change.

I had to check i was still in NP&E reading this, but then I read the posts following yours..........

[Crumpet]

If you’re a decent bloke, with decent morals, who respects women - basically not a ‘weirdo’ - it’s normal to just think everyone else is just like you and that there’s nothing for women to worry about. There was a time when I thought like that.

Unfortunately a lot of men are utter s. I’ve had a lot of female friends and colleagues tell me stories of how some men have acted just when going out on a mutually agreed ‘date’. It’s staggering what some men think is acceptable and hugely disappointing when it’s a man that you know and previously thought was a good bloke.

I can completely understand why this is an issue but I don’t know what the solution is.

[bitchstewie]

Crumpet said:

If you’re a decent bloke, with decent morals, who respects women - basically not a ‘weirdo’ - it’s normal to just think everyone else is just like you and that there’s nothing for women to worry about. There was a time when I thought like that.

Unfortunately a lot of men are utter s. I’ve had a lot of female friends and colleagues tell me stories of how some men have acted just when going out on a mutually agreed ‘date’. It’s staggering what some men think is acceptable and hugely disappointing when it’s a man that you know and previously thought was a good bloke.

I can completely understand why this is an issue but I don’t know what the solution is.

Exactly.

And whenever attitudes towards women and harassment of women comes up there's a section of PistonHeads who show themselves up for what they are with their comments and attitudes.

I don't think there is a solution but calling it out when you see it is a start.

[8.4L 154]

Four Litre said:

JagLover said:

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

Men are more likely to be assaulted outside the home than women. So yes not sure men are wandering around the rougher parts of town at night without a care in the world.

Exactly this. Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women. Last time I looked the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women.

Not a good idea if Jess Phililips is trying to equal that??!

is that because women are self excluding themselves from situations where that might happen though, there seems to be a lot of evidence that they are and plenty of evidence even on here that males are not even thinking about it and cracking on walking into situation for that to occur.

[bitchstewie]

Four Litre said:

The same government stats state that men are twice as likely to be verbally intimidated.

I have a daughter and a son. I worry about both of them, my daughter gets propositioned regularly, my son gets people trying to steal his stuff, like his bike etc when hes on it or fight him.

I wonder how these stats are being measured and recorded.

There's a section of people on here who would ask what your daughter is wearing or suggest it's just banter and she needs to stop being such a "snowflake".

I imagine her daily experience isn't recorded in too many stats?

That isn't to take away from your sons experience as I doubt that's in any stats either and if someone wants to campaign for boys safety that's fine by me I just think it's a different set of challenges.

[JagLover]

oyster said:

the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women
DOES NOT EQUATE TO:
Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women

I suspect a large amount of the males being attacked or verbally intimidated are doing so because of their behaviour and attitude to risk. Many will likely be things like pub fights and so on. Hardly comparable.

Do many men get such attacks and intimidation doing things like:
Walking home from the station
Out on a run
Walking past a pub.

Sounds a little like victim blaming .

All of the men I know who have been physically assaulted had it happen just out and about. Walking down a street or high street, or getting off a bus. Almost all by a group of lads.

[Gareth79]

oyster said:

Four Litre said:

JagLover said:

A500leroy said:

While I applaud her for trying to make things safer for women, It really grates when she says she wants it equal to how men feel. I wasnt aware that lone felt felt safe in all parts of the country at night or on public transport, In fact I think a lot of men are as equally scared as women.
Does she need to reword her mission?

Men are more likely to be assaulted outside the home than women. So yes not sure men are wandering around the rougher parts of town at night without a care in the world.

Exactly this. Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women. Last time I looked the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women.

Not a good idea if Jess Phililips is trying to equal that??!

the official stats were over double the % for men to be verbally intimidated or violently attacked than women
DOES NOT EQUATE TO:
Males are significantly of higher risk of being violently attacked than women

I suspect a large amount of the males being attacked or verbally intimidated are doing so because of their behaviour and attitude to risk. Many will likely be things like pub fights and so on. Hardly comparable.

It's absolutely that. Compare with the statistic that 92% of motorcyclist deaths are men.