Dead soldier suffered relentless sexual harassmen

[s1962a]

I am sure there is already a thread on this, but I don't know how to search NP&E for older threads - is there a way?

Have things changed in the army since this happened? The poor victim seemed to have had no protection from the abuser at all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66982160

[bitchstewie]

When you actually read about the behaviours and the (lack of) action taken it beggars belief how that can happen in a modern workplace.

[coanda]

The armed forces aren't a modern workplace, clearly.

[Zetec-S]

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

[Biggy Stardust]

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

I'll completely disagree with you. The Army is quite keen on its good reputation & can be quite ruthless to preserve it.

The guy in question will almost certainly be court martialled. Any guilty verdict will be accompanied by a very unpleasant time in military prison.

[boyse7en]

My daughter is quite keen on joining one the forces after doing her degree as an engineer, but this sort of stuff really puts me off encouraging her to do so.

[PurpleTurtle]

I'm assuming they are awaiting the outcome of the inquest before pursuing any charges. Is that the normal procedure?

[SAS Tom]

Biggy Stardust said:

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

I'll completely disagree with you. The Army is quite keen on its good reputation & can be quite ruthless to preserve it.

The guy in question will almost certainly be court martialled. Any guilty verdict will be accompanied by a very unpleasant time in military prison.

You’re missing the point. Punishing someone for these things isn’t the answer. Stopping them happening is.

[coanda]

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

In the civvy world, what would you get if you took that to the Police?

[Zetec-S]

Biggy Stardust said:

I'll completely disagree with you. The Army is quite keen on its good reputation & can be quite ruthless to preserve it.

The guy in question will almost certainly be court martialled. Any guilty verdict will be accompanied by a very unpleasant time in military prison.

Perhaps, but that's not addressing the bigger issue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57956698

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48993201

[98elise]

For this sort of thing there need to be a means of reporting and investigating that isn't part of the military hierarchy.

This already happens for religious matters where the Chaplain/Padre is commissioned but doesn't have a formal rank. This means they have a direct line into any part of the hierarchy.

It wouldn't take much to have a similar role for someone to deal with non religious pastoral and personal stuff before it becomes more serious.

[pork911]

SAS Tom said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

I'll completely disagree with you. The Army is quite keen on its good reputation & can be quite ruthless to preserve it.

The guy in question will almost certainly be court martialled. Any guilty verdict will be accompanied by a very unpleasant time in military prison.

You’re missing the point. Punishing someone for these things isn’t the answer. Stopping them happening is.

what does that mean?

[98elise]

coanda said:

The armed forces aren't a modern workplace, clearly.

One person's actions don't define an entire workplace. Someone senior at my last place of work sexually assaulted the office junior. It doesn't mean we were all doing it.

[boyse7en]

coanda said:

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

In the civvy world, what would you get if you took that to the Police?

That's not the equivalent.

In the civvy world, what would you get if you took a similar claim to HR of a large company? would be a closer analogy.

[SAS Tom]

pork911 said:

SAS Tom said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

I'll completely disagree with you. The Army is quite keen on its good reputation & can be quite ruthless to preserve it.

The guy in question will almost certainly be court martialled. Any guilty verdict will be accompanied by a very unpleasant time in military prison.

You’re missing the point. Punishing someone for these things isn’t the answer. Stopping them happening is.

what does that mean?

Instead of saying the army have a good reputation and punish those sexually harassing others, they should stop the harassment in the first place.

[ben5575]

98elise said:

coanda said:

The armed forces aren't a modern workplace, clearly.

One person's actions don't define an entire workplace. Someone senior at my last place of work sexually assaulted the office junior. It doesn't mean we were all doing it.

It's not just one person's actions though is it? It was a systemic failure by the army to adequately investigate her complaints.

[Electro1980]

boyse7en said:

coanda said:

Zetec-S said:

1,000 messages/voicemails in a month, 3,500 the following month is fking insane! The mind boggles at how anyone can think that's acceptable. Sadly the armed forces seem quite keen to keep sweeping this sort of stuff under the carpet and not upset the old boys club.

I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

In the civvy world, what would you get if you took that to the Police?

That's not the equivalent.

In the civvy world, what would you get if you took a similar claim to HR of a large company? would be a closer analogy.

Police is closer than HR given the military is very different and military police have the authority and powers to investigate in the way HR departments don’t.

Based on 4500+ messages in two months, with evidence of controlling behaviour and harassment, both would take quite swift action. That’s not a he said/she said situation with that much evidence.

ben5575 said:

98elise said:

coanda said:

The armed forces aren't a modern workplace, clearly.

One person's actions don't define an entire workplace. Someone senior at my last place of work sexually assaulted the office junior. It doesn't mean we were all doing it.

It's not just one person's actions though is it? It was a systemic failure by the army to adequately investigate her complaints.

And it’s not the first time this has happened.

Edited by Electro1980 on Wednesday 4th October 16:47

[andy_s]

Zetec-S said:

...
I'm sure the usual PH dinosaurs will be along shortly to claim it's "just banter", she should have taken it as a compliment, etc.

Still waiting...

--

What an utter , and no interim position she could turn to either I presume, which is almost as bad, and that's a systemic root problem.

[s1962a]

98elise said:

coanda said:

The armed forces aren't a modern workplace, clearly.

One person's actions don't define an entire workplace. Someone senior at my last place of work sexually assaulted the office junior. It doesn't mean we were all doing it.

Were HR notified and turned a blind eye, or got the person to write a letter of apology? This wasn't an isolated incident and it's how the army handled it, and are probably still handling similar complaints that is the issue.

[Biggy Stardust]

SAS Tom said:

Instead of saying the army have a good reputation and punish those sexually harassing others, they should stop the harassment in the first place.

A few years in Cochester or similar might send a strong message to all ranks regarding expected behaviour.