£500 million for Tata Steel

[Oliver Hardy]

Government are giving Tata another half a billion pounds, this time to switch from coal to electric furnaces.

3000 jobs will go and I believe the anility to make steel for things like car bodies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66819458

[gazza285]

Basically a change from steel production to scrap reprocessing. This will leave the U.K. with two working blast furnaces, not much left of a once proud industry.

[hidetheelephants]

Should be doing the same as the Swedish, put money into hydrogen furnace development. Arc furnace is a dead end with no new technology, govt should not be spending on it.

[Digga]

Yes SSAB are now working to net zero steel. It does seem we’re not setting targets for domestic production.

Steel manufacturing, like energy production, is a key economic and geopolitical asset and ability.

[Murph7355]

Interesting that the narrative in the article seems to be changing from recent times...

The economic and social impacts of the drive to net zero are creeping in.

Probably too late. It feels like we're sleep walking into irreversible issues. Long term possible saving of the planet (! With our size, that ain't happening), shoot ourselves in the head short to medium term.

[dcb]

Oliver Hardy said:

Government are giving Tata another half a billion pounds, this time to switch from coal to electric furnaces.

3000 jobs will go and I believe the anility to make steel for things like car bodies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66819458

I make that about £167K per worker, which seems a lot.

At about £30K per worker per year, about 5.5 years, which seems even more.

Is wasting money like this really cheaper than paying for all those workers
to be retrained in new skills ?

5.5 years is a *lot* of training. A three year degree in something useful would be cheaper.

[andy43]

That’s what I’d class as critical infrastructure.
Politicians and the green blob should stay the hell away from it.

[Otispunkmeyer]

They shouldn't be spending money putting in EA furnaces. That's yesterdays technology. And presumably they're only really for re-melting scrap or ingots? they're not for making brand new steel?

Maybe they plan to make slabs in india and melt them here, but that is just offshoring the issue.

[bazza white]

I work in a steel plant with an arc furnace and a rolling mill. My question is where is all the scrap coming from ?. I've also not seen any info what products their rolling mill will be doing. If its the same as ours I think I best start looking for another job.

[KarlMac]

I work in the industry and this is just baffling. There are currently two EAF in Rotherham that are running at less than 10% capacity as the company that runs them is still battling with the fall out from the collapse of Greensill (who were financing them). Theres Celsa down the road running EAF as well with spare capacity.

There are benefits to Port Talbots location - it’s a deep sea port for export, I think it’s in the process (if not already) of becoming a Freeport and a lot of the steel made there is planned to go into new car/battery plants planned for the south west.

Not really an investment for the future, if they were doing that then they’d be looking at companies like SSAB and what they’re working on.

You definitely can make new steel with EAF. All of Boeing & Airbus landing gear is made with steel from EAFs, it’s used extensively in aerospace applications. Blast furnace still is supposed to be cheap mass produced stuff for construction and rail, but the numbers don’t work if the volume isn’t there.

[Digga]

WRT steel, aside from what I said earlier about it being of significant strategic importance, it is also under heavy attack from China.

All Chinese steel firms are state owned. Most are vertically integrated; the same company owns both steel plants and also the mines for the iron and coke/coal. The firms in China that use the steel are also subsidised.

The EU and USA are making noises about having another look at tarrifs.

[Cheburator mk2]

There was a weirdly connected story on Bloomberg a day ago...

The US Coast Guard is struggling to build new ice breakers because the shipyards in the US have lost the ability to cut and shape specialty hardened steel plate used in the construction of ships working in the Arctic. In addition, the steel producers in the US are also struggling to make the steel to specification. They literally are starting from scratch, which has set the project back at least 5 years and also incurred significant cost overruns.

What morons in charge, like Baddenoch, don't realise is that with quite a few specific skills like these - once they are gone, they are gone, and re-acquiring them again costs an enormous amount of time and money. Believing that everything can be outsourced to the cheapest bidder, is just plain wrong and short-sighted.

Sadly, this kind of myopia has been prevalent in UK politics for a while, like 50yrs... And we are all bankers, including yours truly...

Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 19th September 10:07

[Digga]

Cheburator mk2 said:

The US Coast Guard is struggling to build new ice breakers because the shipyards in the US have lost the ability to cut and shape specialty hardened steel plate used in the construction of ships working in the Arctic. In addition, the steel producers in the US are also struggling to make the steel to specification. They literally are starting from scratch, which has set the project back at least 5 years and also incurred significant cost overruns.

True story - the company in Telford that make our hydraulic rams also make them for the davits on the US Coastguard vessels. Very particualr spec.

[Oliver Hardy]

More job losses as UK steel (well Indian) company shuts its blast furnace s and converting to environmentally friendly electric steel production losing the ability to make certain type of steel in the UK.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/british-stee...

I thought going green was meant to create jobs?

[gazza285]

That would leave the U.K. with no iron making facilities at all. A sad day if the blast furnaces close, I’ve spent a fair bit of my working life on those furnaces.

[KarlMac]

More annoyed that our government is funding the cheaper alternative to blast furnaces when there’s already two EAFs sat idle in Rotherham!

[hidetheelephants]

KarlMac said:

More annoyed that our government is funding the cheaper alternative to blast furnaces when there’s already two EAFs sat idle in Rotherham!

These will sit idle too unless there's some arrangement to supply cheap electricity.

[bazza white]

Heard they are going to roll rebar to which would screw us over. No virgin steel production in the UK is just a joke. Production will still happen but will be abroad and the imported.

[LivLL]

Oliver Hardy said:

More job losses as UK steel (well Indian) company shuts its blast furnace s and converting to environmentally friendly electric steel production losing the ability to make certain type of steel in the UK.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/british-stee...

I thought going green was meant to create jobs?

It's Chinese, I wonder what possible reason China would want to hobble foreign steel production? It's a simple ruse, close the current furnaces due "not green" and promise replacement "green" furnaces that never come. Sorry, so sorry not economically viable but thanks for all the gov money in the meantime.

Edited by LivLL on Tuesday 7th November 09:01

[wc98]

LivLL said:

Oliver Hardy said:

More job losses as UK steel (well Indian) company shuts its blast furnace s and converting to environmentally friendly electric steel production losing the ability to make certain type of steel in the UK.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/british-stee...

I thought going green was meant to create jobs?

It's Chinese, I wonder what possible reason China would want to hobble foreign steel production? It's a simple ruse, close the current furnaces due "not green" and promise replacement "green" furnaces that never come. Sorry, so sorry not economically viable but thanks for all the gov money in the meantime.

Edited by LivLL on Tuesday 7th November 09:01

I see i'm not the only cynic in here, i believe that is exactly what will happen.